NightHawk2K2 on 11/2/2006 at 18:44
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
Yes, and each time I say my piece, you don't refute a single argument I make. It's like you're saying "OK, you're right, but I still don't agree with you".
No, I'm just not going to argue with someone who's already made up their mind.
Quote:
Well, there are over a billion Muslims in the world. The people involved in the unrest over these cartoons is much less than a billion. Call it arithmetic.
And the point I'm making is that double standards are common throughout all of the world's religions, and singling out one of them for extra special criticism, and applying that criticism to all practitioners of that religion (regardless of their stance) is just a bit unfair.
Then why are so many Muslim leaders crying "foul" over the Danish cartoons and calling Muslims all over the world to protest? Why can't they just tell people they don't appreciate it and let it go, for Pete's sake?
Renzatic on 11/2/2006 at 18:48
Quote:
And the point I'm making is that double standards are common throughout all of the world's religions, and singling out one of them for extra special criticism, and applying that criticism to all practitioners of that religion (regardless of their stance) is just a bit unfair.
Though that small minority or Islam is one of the most vocal and violent out there at the moment, and the moderate Muslims continue to walk their fine line rather than take action against it...I'd say they're drawing the comparisons on themselves.
NightHawk2K2 on 11/2/2006 at 18:54
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
[EDIT: please stop fucking around, deleting your posts and re-posting them after responses have been made, it's incredibly irritating. Plus deleting whole sections of your post that people have responded to is retarded]
Sorry, like I already said, I've got to do it a certain way. And by the time I've revised my post, you've already responded to what was and not what is.
Vigil on 11/2/2006 at 19:04
Then how about getting your words right before you press the submit button? If you're going to be obsessive-compulsive then at least have the patience to get your compulsions out of the way in one go.
SD on 11/2/2006 at 19:04
Quote Posted by NightHawk2K2
No, I'm just not going to argue with someone who's already made up their mind.
...
Quote:
Then why are so many Muslim leaders crying "foul" over the Danish cartoons and calling Muslims all over the world to protest? Why can't they just tell people they don't appreciate it and let it go, for Pete's sake?
They're entitled to protest against what is (to them) a deep and savage attack on their religion. Just because YOU don't feel it is an important issue does not mean that they see it that way.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Though that small minority or Islam is one of the most vocal and violent out there at the moment, and the moderate Muslims continue to walk their fine line rather than take action against it...
Action like (
http://www.mabonline.info/english/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=658) this you mean?
NightHawk2K2 on 11/2/2006 at 19:16
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
They're entitled to protest against what is (to them) a deep and savage attack on their religion. Just because YOU don't feel it is an important issue does not mean that they see it that way.
That still does not excuse this. (
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060211/ap_on_re_mi_ea/prophet_drawings) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060211/ap_on_re_mi_ea/prophet_drawings What the hell happened to freedom of the press and free speech? They're just pissed off because the Danish hit the nail on the head and they're responding the way they always do when someone calls their bluff and exposes them. Also I want to say that I do not think that it's the majority of Muslims who believe in violence. What gets me is their leaders. Their leaders are the ones who have the power to demand "justice" on the cartoonists.
Chimpy Chompy on 11/2/2006 at 19:56
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
But then I guess I've been lucky enough to be hanging around the 99.9% of Muslims who are perfectly reasonable peace-loving people.
Are you really sure 99.9% of muslims would condemn the crazy reactions of protestors to the cartoons? You know, burning of embassies and "Behead those who insult islam" banners etc etc?
I'm not. :( I'm very worried lots of "moderate" muslims are in fact either in quiet agreement with the nutters, or would only oppose their actions in a half-hearted way whilst making lots of excuses.
The whole "oh moderates are fine only a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny little minority support violence" line is starting to look weak. Probably it is a minority still, I'm just doubting the tinyness. I wish more moderate leaders would stand out and condemn their extremists - without caveats, excuses or attempts to mitigate what they do. Just an outright "this is stupid, sorry world."
Western culture has a great capacity for self-criticism, in the media etc. Sure we do stupid stuff (hello iraq) but you're guaranteed anger and opposition from a sizeable portion of the population. Can we say the same for islam? Can it ask itself difficult questions? Or is it easier to always play the victim?
DarkViper on 11/2/2006 at 20:04
Ok, what about 9/11? We all got crazy mad over that and wanted retaliation, but in their belief western powers [mainly the US] are evil. Does that mean we should suddenly stop and say, "Eh... [to them] this is free speech and expression. We'll just let it go and tell them not to do it again"
The cartoons depicted something forbidden in their religion and they felt so strongly they had to retaliate. Just as we did when our towers were hit. Cartoons vs building destruction you may be asking? Protecting our peoples from acts of violence is as important to us as protecting their beloved Muhammad so yes I believe it's a valid anology.
That article only strengthens StD's argument [regarding double standards]. Basically, they are complaining that everyone can express themselves about Muslims but when Muslims attack others then they cite freedom of speech. That is why they cannot "let it go". Our leaders have the power to demand "justice" for whatever else too, but not everyone here is agreeing. Yet, still, everywhere you here people talking about how all the Americans like to do is start wars. Not every American is guilty... not every Muslim is guilty.
It's all cultural. Everything. One culture doesn't accept what the other culture believes and vows to "rid them of their impure ways". Anglos vs Native Americans [19th century America], Nazis vs Jews, the Mexicans vs Blacks in the Los Angeles jail system.
NightHawk2K2 on 11/2/2006 at 20:16
But the only people who have died due to the cartoons have been murdered by the Islam extremists, the same people who condoned 9/11. Hasn't anyone wondered that maybe it is because of 9/11 and countless other attacks that the Danish decided to make the cartoons in the first place? They didn't just draw stuff up out of nowhere. Why the hell hasn't anyone mentioned a thing about how American soldiers on the front lines die weekly and sometimes daily because the natives want them get off their property and go home and are willing to sacrifice their lives to ensure it? Isn't that extreme?
DarkViper on 11/2/2006 at 20:29
If those same Muslims came over here and started taking out organizations they believed to be detrimental to their religion/culture (or the world's)... we would be fighting them as well on our own turf - to the point of getting rid of every last threat to our nation. I mean, not blowing ourselves up... but to the Muslim's that is the holy way of doing things to preserve their own ways. I think. Whether or not we blow ourselves up wouldn't matter... so if they didn't blow themselves up daily and instead just did a normal slaughter-fest over there then it'd be different? They'd be a little better? (Hell, in a way they're kicking themselves in the ass by doing so but that's not the issue here)
Okay, so the Danish drew up the cartoons in response to all these acts of violence by the Muslim - "popularized" in media worldwide. But why take their main symbol of all that is holy to them and degrade him by placing a bomb under his turban? This may not have happened had they depicted some random insurgent with a bomb strapped to his head. This is a slur on their entire religion.
Even though the US is straying from it's religious base, say they drew up a cartoon depicting Jesus Christ as some authoritarian military leader who is commanding Bush or his advisors to make war on some country? I think that'd upset quite a few people. More than just "quite a few" acually.
