Muzman on 14/8/2008 at 06:28
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
Personally I think Smith is completely overrated as an actor, I think his place is in character roles that require capable comic timing (he hasn't been better than he was in
Hitch, for what it's worth). I sure haven't seen any evidence of range beyond that.
It's funny you say that. Most debate is on whether he's underrated and people usually throw out his one or two attempts at proper acting as examples. Like most people in that category I think
Six Degrees of Separation did prove that he can do straight when he wants to and when there's a director who can make him look good doing it by keeping things small. But I don't expect to see it generally and audiences for his films give him little reason to bother. (I haven't seen Hitch or Ali)
Thirith on 14/8/2008 at 07:17
Quote:
... audiences for his films give him little reason to bother.
That's a problem with a whole number of actors: the largest part of the audience wants to see them do their usual spiel, which means that the studios by and large hire them to do what they always do, and the directors pretty much let them do their own thing. People underestimate how much of an actor's work has to do with how (or indeed whether) he or she is being directed properly.
Muzman on 14/8/2008 at 08:56
'zactly. I reckon if you're working on a 100million dollar Will Smith Movie™, even if you're an actorly director and even if Mr Smith expressed a desire to be pushed out of his comfort zone and into a character, both of you aren't going to be too confident in really doing so and probably fall back into the usual comfortable groove.
Rogue Keeper on 14/8/2008 at 09:21
Quote Posted by Thirith
People underestimate how much of an actor's work has to do with how (or indeed whether) he or she is being directed properly.
Sure, there are various apporaches to direction. While f.e. Coppola or Spielberg discuss the character a lot with the actors, they spend hours to develop the character together, there are people like Scott who are fully confident about actor's ability to develop the character for himself and they specifically choose self-sufficient actors who won't bother them with boring questions about the script while they focus on production design and artistic direction. And there are masterminds like Kubrick who think the actors are neccesary evil who interrupt their serene state of mind with trivialities like "I'm reluctant to do this nude scene". As I heard his approach to actors has humanized in his later years, but still it's extraordinary how humbly underserving Cruise&Kidman have been to his demands.
Scots Taffer on 14/8/2008 at 09:29
Quote Posted by Muzman
Most debate is on whether he's underrated and people usually throw out his one or two attempts at proper acting as examples. Like most people in that category I think
Six Degrees of Separation did prove that he can do straight when he wants to and when there's a director who can make him look good doing it by keeping things small.
I haven't seen that movie, or
Ali, or
Pursuit of Happiness, all of which (along with
I Am Legend) were praised for Will's acting. Having only seen Legend perhaps I'm judging him unfairly, though I doubt it, as I thought he was woefully 2-d in Legend.
Although like you say, it's worth noting that the movie you mentioned appeared before the movies that launched him to stardom:
Bad Boys,
Men in Black and
Independence Day all have a touch of that muggy-shoutin'-my-lines attitude that made Smith so bankable and ultimately so one-tone as an actor.
Perhaps there is an actor lurking in there, but it certainly wasn't the actor that became huge and perhaps Smith doesn't have that "hunger" in him anymore.
Thirith on 14/8/2008 at 09:34
Quote:
... there are people like Scott who are fully confident about actor's ability to develop the character for himself and they specifically choose self-sufficient actors who won't bother them with boring questions about the script...
While I like a lot of Scott's films (we are talking about *Ridley*, right?), I honestly don't get that attitude - or rather, I think it tends to lead to empty spectacle. It's a bit like a conductor leaving the instrumentalists to their own devices.
However, thinking about films such as
Alien and
Matchstick Men, I doubt that Scott really does this all of the time, whatever he may say. You don't get a scene like the birth of the alien by letting the actors do their own thing.
Edit: Scots, if you like Michael Mann's films, do check out
Ali. As far as I remember, there's none of the "Aw, hell, I'm Will Smith" spiel you get in the other films.
Rogue Keeper on 14/8/2008 at 10:08
Trust me, after seeing lots of documentaries about Alien and Blade Runner, where Scott himself (along with people who work with him) talks about his style of work, they make you very clear what his apporach is. In his own words, the trick is to choose the right actors and let them do their own thing. The reactions in the chestburster scene are 100% spontaneous, they had only very gross idea what's gonna happen. That's why they're so authentic. The most important thing Scott did for development of the characters was that he wrote biographies of the characters in two or three evenings and gave them to the actors so they could base their roles on something solid, after that, the look and behavior of their characters was their full responsibility.
Harrisson Ford was kinda frustrated during shooting of Blade Runner, because besides the conditions, Ridley didn't guide him too much. That was quite different approach from what he was used to when he worked with Coppola or Spielberg. Executive producer Katherine Haber said she was supposed to guide newcomer Sean Young at Ridley's wish. Hannah, Olmos and Hauer had to develop their characters for themselves. In the meantime Scott was preoccupied with camera (he likes to be his own operator), lighting, sets, talks with designers and of course defending his schedule from financiers.
Good actor can be known by talent, invention, self-examination, ideas ... good actor doesn't need to be necessarily guided by director step by step, he's fully self-reliant when it comes to creation of his character and when he/she does it good, director is happy and he can pay attention to other things on the set to make the film great. That's the magic of improvisation.
To paraphrase what RS said in Dangerous Days : Making of Blade Runner :
"As a director I don't negotiate. Directing means DO IT, MATE. Go. That's IT... I chose you, because I know you're good at what you do. I'm gonna get the best."
Scots Taffer on 14/8/2008 at 10:09
I love Mann's films, I tend to find biopics singularly boring and Ali didn't look like an exception.
Thirith on 14/8/2008 at 10:23
Quote Posted by BR796164
Good actor can be known by talent, invention, self-examination, ideas ... good actor doesn't need to be necessarily guided by director step by step, he's fully self-reliant when it comes to creation of his character and when he/she does it good, director is happy and he can pay attention to other things on the set to make the film great. That's the magic of improvisation.
Yes, but. And it's a huge but. Film is a collaborative effort - acting doubly so, unless you want a bunch of actors who all do their own thing which, in isolation, might be fine but doesn't gel with what the others are doing. No one's talking about step-by-step guidance, but in order to get an ensemble to work together, making the different acting styles fit, you need a director who pays attention to this.
What you're saying and what Scott is saying is roughly akin to a team manager saying, "Well, I got all of those athletes because they're good at what they're doing. No need to talk to them about team strategy."
Rogue Keeper on 14/8/2008 at 10:59
That is basically correct. They're professionals, they know each other's place. Executive Producers organize the team, director does his own artistic stuff. Of course it happens that actor and director get into clash because of different approaches to work, and paradoctically sometimes even the mood of the actor on place helps his performance. There was an opinion that insecurity and grumpiness and tiredness of Harisson Ford on place helped to make the internal struggle of Rick Deckard more visible, believable and helped actor's performance.
