Stitch on 18/5/2006 at 16:22
Lurk less.
demagogue on 18/5/2006 at 16:22
What gets me is that there are actually very interesting things to say about Hitler's art, especially regarding his attitude and (later) policies towards art and almost every post ITT is missing the entire point of that, and going off in some generic "Is Hitler incarnate evil or man?" diatribe that don't offer anything useful just because it's so generic and not really specific to anything.
So, for example, Hitler's attitudes on modernism and modernist art as "degenerate" and traditional art as favored foreshadows a lot of the nationalist, aesthetic reaction against globalization and the value of nationalist iconography (rally round the flag art) still today (remember he had a ministry of propaganda that used nationalist art all the time) ... because his vision was such an extreme position that actually became gov't policy. More than that, his policies on art had an impact that reverberated through the art world for decades after and with it popular culture in Europe and the US. And all of these ideas were being blossomed in his postcard days. So it's useful to try to connect the dots, I'd think.
SD on 18/5/2006 at 17:50
Quote Posted by Oli G
But there seems to be a complete inability or unwillingness on the part of some people here to acknowledge that Hitler the dictator was the same person as Hitler the human. Or to put it another way, there seems to be a complete inability on the part of these people to understand or acknowledge the realities of human nature.
I hope to goodness that you're not referring to me there. Because (as AGWPT pointed out earlier in the thread) I'm usually the first to pick people up when they only see good and evil in black and white.
More particularly, I don't feel that I have in any way, shape or form behaved in a childish manner in this thread. But I genuinely don't think anyone else here appreciates the work that is currently being done behind the scenes, by the neo-Nazi movement, to rehabilitate Hitler, the historical figure; to present him as a man who was tricked and misled into genocidal madness.
But I'd agree with Stitch, you should definitely grace us with your presence more often. It can get awful cold and lonely in those ivory towers ;).
scumble on 18/5/2006 at 18:26
Quote Posted by Paz
This isn't really correct, unless you mean "ordinary election" for the period - because by todays standards the violence and intimidation were pretty epic.
Also, Hitler may not have made chancellor were it not for Von Papen's grievence with Schleicher, Papen's arrogant belief that he could control Hitler as some kind of puppet figurehead and Hindenburg's age and relative weakness.
It certainly wasn't a simple "ooh, the Nazis have won a high vote share in a fair and open election - I guess that makes Hitler chancellor!" process.
It's all relative when it comes to democracy - I'm not sure we necessarily have a great electoral system either, although it may be better in a number of ways. Still, it's a kind of detail in what I what I was mainly talking about...
Low Moral Fiber on 18/5/2006 at 18:31
It looks like Wimpy holding a hamburger to his head, in his own personal hell where he has to pay up front to eat the blasted thing, but Tuesday never comes. :(
Paz on 18/5/2006 at 18:45
Quote Posted by scumble
I'm not sure we necessarily have a great electoral system either, although it may be better in a number of ways.
I'm hopefully not going out too far on a limb if I say that the current (admittedly broken) electoral system in this country is indeed "a bit better" than scenes from the dying days of the infamously brittle Weimar Republic in 1930s Germany.
I prefer politicians when they use non-physical coercion, really.
The rest I didn't pick up on because I mostly agreed with it.
Agent Monkeysee on 18/5/2006 at 18:54
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
All I said originally was that any site which attempted to show Hitler in a positive light is going to be of a dubious nature. I don't think I'm making that big a stretch in saying that.
That's great but I wasn't responding to that. I was responding to this:
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
But we've seen this sort of thing before. It's the first step on the rehabilitation of Hitler as a figure in history. First it's "ooh, he was an evil bastard, but didn't he do nice paintings"? Next it'll be "That Hitler was a bad un', but I bet he'd do a better job with the immigrants than this lot." Before you know it, Hitler was "misguided", the Holocaust didn't happen, and my goodness me, didn't he have good taste in footwear?
Which is patently ludicrous. No one listens to neo-nazis except other neo-nazis.
Matthew on 18/5/2006 at 20:49
Quote Posted by Low Moral Fiber
re: Starr's pic
Or is it Gestalt's pic? ;)
driver on 18/5/2006 at 21:24
Quote:
Eddie IzzardGott dammit... I can't... get... ze trees... right...! SHCISSE! I VILL KILL EVERYONE!
my message is too short :(
