Stitch on 7/10/2009 at 20:05
Americans are terrified of health care reform because we are idiots.
SubJeff on 7/10/2009 at 20:08
Quote Posted by the_grip
bring the number of doctors, etc., up (perhaps by lowering the crazy standards kept for actually schooling and producing doctors, etc.).
This would be dangerous, no? Besides, its not the standards that are the limiting factor to the number of docs graduating but the number of med schools. Plenty of people who meet the standards don't get in because courses are usually over prescribed and you have to just put cut-offs somewhere.
the_grip on 7/10/2009 at 20:17
Not sure I understand why you think that it would be dangerous. There are other nations who don't have near the requirements that we do, yet they have equally qualified doctors. The first heart transplant was done by a doctor who was from South Africa where they have something like a five year program followed up by a two to three year internship (no undergraduate degree required, either).
Besides, the fact that medical schools are so high in demand speaks to the fact of limited supply.
And this is a self-confessed thought out on a limb here regarding the whole supply of doctors thing.
the_grip on 7/10/2009 at 20:22
I don't doubt it costs more. That's kind of what I'm driving at here... and I don't think our current system would necessarily get cheaper with government input. "Cost more" is also a relative concept. Making dramatic changes to the system itself, on the other hand, would change the game and could make it relatively cheaper.
(p.s. and yes, I tend to type more stream of consciousness on an Internet forum and don't really consider the in-betweenisms of the shit I spout out... "intents and purposes"... I don't tend to proof like I would (for example) an email at work)
Mr.Duck on 7/10/2009 at 20:22
Quote Posted by Stitch
Gringos are terrified of health care reform because we are idiots.
This.
I <3 u.
Change's always hard...lets see how it goes.
the_grip on 7/10/2009 at 20:28
D'Juhn Keep, great post you linked to BTW...
Quote:
"Doctors will be paid less."
They probably will. In nations with UHC, doctors often earn less - for example, U.S. doctors earn 30% more than Canadian doctors - but this isn't an inherent problem. It is still one of the highest-paying professions in the world, and there are many other ways of attracting skilled people to medicine - such as subsidising their education.
This hits the OP on the head. I've been beating around the bush on this issue a little, but my sense is that the supply of doctors is linked very closely to them wanting to maintain a particular standard of living.
(I also hope it is clear here that I'm not arguing against public healthcare... I'm speculating on the supply of doctors being a problem. Subsidizing the education of and/or changing the standards for doctors would be a start in the other direction)
SubJeff on 7/10/2009 at 22:16
Quote Posted by the_grip
Not sure I understand why you think that it would be dangerous.
Because it's not an easy job. Don't get me wrong, I think anyone can achieve anything if they put their mind to it and I'm living proof of that. But if you let the proverbial Tom, Dick and Harry in you'll either end up with lots of failures to graduate or (if you lower the graduation standards) dangerous doctors.
Quote Posted by the_grip
my sense is that the supply of doctors is linked very closely to them wanting to maintain a particular standard of living.
You're not saying that the number of doctors is purposely limited so that they can be in demand and thus request high salaries are you? Doctoring requires a lot of hard work and one hell of a lot of responsibility. Its the responsibility and the specific skill-set that demands the level of remuneration, which - given the awful unsocial hours and all the rest of it (don't get me started) - isn't really that much. I know a lot of people who would not be happy working under the same conditions for less money and tbh I see their point. I'm not bothered so much (as long as I can get by and my car works etc) and in any case UK docs have all taken a pay cut because EU law means no-one is supposed to work more than 48hrs a week. Lots of people are already grumbling about the effect on training (mostly) and pay.
SD on 7/10/2009 at 23:11
Quote Posted by the_grip
I don't think our current system would necessarily get cheaper with government input.
Sure it would. Right off the bat, you're stripping $16bn of profit out of the equation. Secondly (and this is where the NHS works great) the government having a dominant position in the market means it can barter the cost of medicines right down.
fett on 7/10/2009 at 23:35
Quote Posted by Stitch
Americans are terrified of health care reform because we are idiots.
That's basically what it boils down to. Watch 5 minutes of any conservative talk show tonight and it will completely obliterate any objection you have to euthanizing the entire country immediately.
the_grip on 7/10/2009 at 23:45
Quote:
You're not saying that the number of doctors is purposely limited so that they can be in demand and thus request high salaries are you?
I'm speculating on it. The American Dental Association (granted, this is dentistry) has been on record actually creating standards to protect their standards of living.
