SD on 22/3/2010 at 13:06
Quote Posted by Vae
You only say this because you wish it were true. It is only your ignorance and ideology that blinds you to a possibility that you may not like.
No, it's precedent that makes the "possibility" an outright fiction. Read your history books.
Quote Posted by Vae
For perspective, there is a chance that the States resistance will fail, and as a result government intrusion will prevail.
And people will no longer die because they can't afford healthcare or because they couldn't get insurance due to pre-existing conditions or because their insurer dropped them like a hot potato when they got sick - what an appalling intrusion :rolleyes:
Quote Posted by Vae
I am a non-partisan independent, and not a republican or democrat.
Oh god, a Libertarian. Your shrill voices can be heard in every corner of the Internet. You're like the fucking AIDS of the world wide web.
Quote Posted by Vae
Most Americans are against this bill
Maybe they shouldn't have elected a President who made healthcare reform his major priority, eh?
Quote Posted by Vae
The far-left progressives actually think that this bill isn't socialized enough, which is scary.
"Far-left" in your world would appear to be anyone who doesn't like to see sick people dying in the street.
Namdrol on 22/3/2010 at 13:06
Quote Posted by Vae
...The United States of America is the most advanced and innovative civilization in the history of mankind, and has raised the quality of life for most of humanity...
If you consider dominating the world through the military industrial complex and exporting broken economic systems to be raising the quality of life thenI agree.
As well as being so advanced that to show a womans nipple on TV is a crime of the utmost magnitude where as death a go-go is fine and dandy.
And to export worldwide the puritanical belief that to seek any form of intoxication is a sin, thereby causing untold suffering and damage.
America has done it's share of good but the bullshit above and the blind belief in this sentiment is probably one of the most dangerous lies in the world.
hopper on 22/3/2010 at 13:34
Quote Posted by Vae
It would be a form of quasi-socialism, if implemented.
At face value, all entitlements seem good at the personal level. It is only when one looks deeper into the system mechanics of a civilization that one realizes the economic crippling affect of socialism.
Economic crippling effect of health care insurance for everyone? Are you for real?
Leaving aside many Americans' fear of "socialism" or anything they deem to be such bordering on the paranoid, when it comes to this bill, it's nothing more than a lazy buzzword. I'm somewhat incredulous about how so many of you go on talking about it in solely simple, talking-point terms - socialism, government takeover, Obamacare - instead of discussing it rationally based on the merits.
Do you think anything should be done about the 15% of your population who are living without any kind of health insurance at all? Do you think anything should be done about the practice of health insurance companies to deny coverage due to preexisting conditions, or about lifetime spending caps? Do you agree that when healthy people who could afford insurance game the system by not buying it until they think they need it, or poor people who can't afford insurance postpone treatment for health issues until they end up in emergency rooms, this drives insurance premiums up for everyone else?
Do you want to recant your "socialism" mantra over and over, or do you want to address these issues like a responsible adult? Would you propose something else be done, or perhaps nothing at all?
One other thing: Don't try to teach those of us who've lived closer to, or even in
real socialism's impact zone about it, because frankly we know more about it than you do.
demagogue on 22/3/2010 at 13:34
I went to the D.C. Mall (long park in front of the Capitol building) for most of Saturday ... not to protest anything. I got up early to see my friend run the DC Marathon and then wanted to see some modern art like I always do when I have a free day, so that put me on the Mall.
Aaaanyway, it was a total mad circus all weekend long. I'd say it was about 98% "Kill the Bill" crowd, all with their "Kill the Bill" signs, a bunch of other eye-rolling phrases like "Mandatory Health Care VIOLATES the CONSTITUTION ! !" and lots of yellow flags with the olde "Don't Tread on Me" snake ... all grouped around the southern Senate Office Building, with a bull horn and droves of people chanting "We're not going to take it", "Kill the Bill", and what sounded like chants of sieg heil at one point, but that could have just been my ears playing tricks with me.
I'm more or less happy this got passed. Health care will always be tricky, but it's a rights issue so needs special treatment. It's just disconcerting that politics has to be such a vicious circus act these days for all these people. FFS take a deep breath, have some tea, calm down, and think about what you're actually saying. Mmm ... Maybe I've spent too much time in Europe and Japan ... (who else thinks of "hot tea" as a way to relax?).
karmaKGB on 22/3/2010 at 13:57
Vae: Stop. Just stop. You're making all of us Americans look like impressionable rubes who get their information from Glenn Beck. You're babbling about "socialism" as if you understand the term, which you clearly do not. Please, stop.
Or keep going, I mean, it is kinda funny. Ya know, whatever.
New Horizon on 22/3/2010 at 14:06
Quote Posted by demagogue
I'd say it was about 98% "Kill the Bill" crowd, all with their "Kill the Bill" signs, a bunch of other eye-rolling phrases like "Mandatory Health Care VIOLATES the CONSTITUTION ! !" and lots of yellow flags with the olde "Don't Tread on Me" snake ... all grouped around the southern Senate Office Building, with a bull horn and droves of people chanting "We're not going to take it", "Kill the Bill", and what sounded like chants of sieg heil at one point, but that could have just been my ears playing tricks with me.
Bullshit like that really makes me happy that I was born and raised in Canada. They don't get it, they simply don't get it.
Queue on 22/3/2010 at 14:23
I guess I'm missing something. Wasn't everyone more-or-less in favor of the idea of Healthcare reform until some lunatics slapped the "giving-poor-folk-healthcare" = "socialism" = "evil-communism" label on it, then suddenly the world was coming to an end and Obama was spending all of our money?
Fuck! I've never been able to afford healthcare, and truly at this point in my life,dying would be a helluva lot cheaper than not--and wouldn't bankrupt my kids.
So if helping some poor sucker who's just trying to make a living for himself avoid the same situation that I'm in is "socialism" then poor me some vodka and call me comrade. I'd rather see money get dumped into that, instead of another eight years of fighting an idea in yet another Islamic country.
john-the-begger on 22/3/2010 at 14:38
Good thing that you Americans decided to do something good for the people and not profit for once
jay pettitt on 22/3/2010 at 14:44
Last I heard, healthy people are likely to take less time off work and more likely to participate in society.
Matthew on 22/3/2010 at 14:47
By becoming MARXIST REBELS :mad::mad::mad:
