Headshots in Thief 4 - TTLG Forums

ZylonBane on 20/6/2013 at 22:24

Quote Posted by Esme

...however I think you could shoot them in the legs for less damage if you just wanted their attention to get them moving and draw them away

You think wrong. In the Dark Engine Thiefs, it doesn't care where on an AI's body an arrow lands-- the damage is always the same. Only exception to this is the large bot boiler vulnerability to water arrows. To get a one-hit kill, you need to shoot an unalerted AI, which applies a significant damage multiplier. Given how into tabletop RPGs the Looking Glass guys were, this was no doubt inspired by the sneak attack bonus in those games.

Esme on 20/6/2013 at 22:27

Quote Posted by ZylonBane

Thanks for clearing that up, good job I never tried it.

ZylonBane on 20/6/2013 at 22:32

Quote Posted by Esme

good job I never tried it.

That doesn't sound like a very good job at all.

Chade on 20/6/2013 at 22:35

Vae, here are the different ways to deal with a guard in thief, from least stealth skill required to most stealth skill required:

Combat -> Sniping -> Blackjack or Backstab -> Ignore

Sniping is the easiest stealthy approach. That's the incentive. Also, unlike combat, it's extremely cheap from a resources point of view.

Quote Posted by Esme

I didn't see any equivalent popup to the "Headshot 40 XP" pop up when Garrett dropped on the guard at the beginning and KO'd them while having an out of body experience, so what is the XP for a stealthy KO ... unless there was a pop up with a higher score that I blinked and missed then the 40XP pop up was a reward favouring killing over stealth.

Esme, that's an important point, and I'm surprised no-one else brought it up. I said the xp rewards "almost certainly" favored blackjacking, because it's not in the bag yet.

Here are the three reasons I believe you'll get more xp for blackjacking:

1. common sense
2. eidos player statement that xp rewards heavily favor stealth
3. eidos player statement that you get xp rewards after the mission for being stealthy an/or non-lethal

Here is the reason you might not believe that, as you said:

1. where is the xp reward for blackjacking in the E3 gameplay movie?

Based on these bits of information, I'm pretty damn confident that you'll get more rewards for blackjacking. However, it's also important to know how those rewards are doled out. Do you get xp for blackjacking at the time you do the blackjack? Or is it rolled into the xp bonus at the end of the mission?

If the xp bonus is rewarded at the end of the mission, then it will take longer for players to realize that headshots are a losing strategy (with respect to xp), and my confident "couple of missions" statement might be wrong ... on the other hand, it will make the HUD less intrusive for crusty old dogs like us. Decisions, decisions ...

Pyrian on 20/6/2013 at 22:36

Quote Posted by Vae

If allowed, "Killing" is one method used in order to complete a general objective, with possible general reward...There is no specific reward for killing in a THIEF game.

So, by your newly updated standards, in which loot isn't a reward for killing because you can get loot other ways, then XP also isn't a reward for killing because you can get XP other ways - including, for example, more XP by not killing.

You've got nothing, Vae. Absolutely nothing.

Vivian on 20/6/2013 at 22:37

Oops, sorry starker. Guess you were right and I start e-shouting a bit too quickly. So you can instakill someone in the knee?

Also, crucial question I haven't seen answered except in some kind of handy-wavy way, what exactly is this XP for?

Chade on 20/6/2013 at 22:44

Vivian, I'm a bit nervous about that. The Eidos players stated that the devs claimed the experience was for upgrades to Garrett (focus?). However, they weren't told anything specific or shown any examples. AFAIK, EM hasn't let on yet.

Vae on 20/6/2013 at 22:54

Quote Posted by Chade

That's very interesting...yet, it fails to refute the truth of what I say...as you present no specific reward for killing.

Quote Posted by Pyrian

:laff:...I'm afraid you are the one who has absolutely nothing...For there is no "XP" in the core design of a THIEF game.

Esme on 20/6/2013 at 22:59

Quote Posted by Chade

...Based on these bits of information, I'm pretty damn confident that you'll get more rewards for blackjacking. However, it's also important to know how those rewards are doled out. Do you get xp for blackjacking at the time you do the blackjack? Or is it rolled into the xp bonus at the end of the mission?

If the xp bonus is rewarded at the end of the mission, then it will take longer for players to realize that headshots are a losing strategy (with respect to xp), and my confident "couple of missions" statement might be wrong ... on the other hand, it will make the HUD less intrusive for crusty old dogs like us. Decisions, decisions ...

So new players see nothing when they do a stealthy takedown but get an immediate reward for a headshot and only if they bother to look at the stats at the end of the level will they find out that stealth carries a greater reward.

Immediate gratification vs jam tomorrow.

I think there's going to be a lot of dead AI littering console screens after release.

Chade on 20/6/2013 at 23:10

Esme, well, maybe, or maybe not. I don't know.

From my point of view, if the xp reward was to be delayed until the end of the mission, ideally you would want to make sure the player sees how much he got and why. You wouldn't want to bury it in some optional screen somewhere. Even then it won't be as effective as "headshot, +40 xp. blackjack, +80 xp".

Vae, the distinction you are trying to draw is meaningless. The only meaningful thing is the list of possibilities and their pros and cons.