LesserFollies on 4/9/2007 at 14:30
That's just the way it is these days in post-9-11 America: people are really nervous and tetchy about any deviant public behavior. It filters down from being escorted off the airplane because your baby is crying to being expected to toe the line and submit to more local, minor discomforts. Walking around with a "fuck the authorities, I know my rights" attitude is just asking for trouble. Add to that the really staggering retail losses to shoplifting, and the store's policy doesn't really surprise me at all. Our local grocery store solves the problem by employing a so-called "greeter" who doesn't greet, but glares at everyone suspiciously as they enter and leave, and by having the cashiers politely ask you "Is there anything on the bottom of your cart you need our help with?" I.e., "Is there something you've hidden beneath our viewpoint that you're trying to waltz off with?" It always bugs me a bit, but I simply say no, instead of saying "NO, I'M NOT TRYING TO STEAL ANYTHING, DO I LOOK LIKE A THIEF TO YOU??? HOW DARE YOU!!! I'M CALLING MY ATTORNEY!!!" You need to pick your battles in this country nowadays, and he picked the wrong one.
eta: It occurs to me... is this guy white or black? If he's black, his reaction is understandable. Black people can barely walk into some stores without security going on red alert.
demagogue on 4/9/2007 at 14:35
I sometimes get in moods like this ... usually only worth pulling when you're by yourself, though, and you know you're right.
As for the receipt check ... I think it's a wash. A store is actually legally protected to do a certain number of things to prevent theft, including a bag check and then temporary restraint if there's resistance, as long as there's a reasonable suspicion first -- like something about your behavior or appearance ... it would have been the shifty-eyed "no thank you" and quick brush-off/ get-away that made it reasonable, not the non-showing of the receipt per se, but then again I'm not sure the way he actually did it was that suspicious; you wouldn't expect a thief to say "no thanks!" so loudly with a smile and a confident strut. It all depends. The guy didn't have cause to resist if the store's original suspicion was reasonable.
In this case, though, I feel like both sides were acting in reasonable boundaries, so it's a wash.
Nobody did anything the law will care about, I think.
The license is another issue ... I think the guy'll win on it, but small victory.
SD on 4/9/2007 at 16:20
This guy is my new hero. It would only happen in the USA though because British people generally don't give a fuck when they're being shafted; Americans have a far healthier libertarian anti-authority attitude.
Pyrian on 4/9/2007 at 17:15
Quote Posted by Turtle
If the store wants to enforce their 'right' to check customers as they leave the premises, that's fine.
However, they need to have that policy clearly posted so customers can see it
before they enter into a transaction with the store.
You mean beyond the guy standing at the entrance/exit checking them? ;) Anyway, yeah, I agree that the policy should be posted.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Slipper slope arguments most certainly DO hold.
No, they don't. They're a big fat wad of bullshit designed to specifically to spuriously (and usually ridiculously) equate things that simply aren't the same.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
If it had been you you'd just have caved, that cop and those CC staff would never know any better and they'd try to pull that crap on someone else the next time.
Oh, the horror, the horror! I couldn't stand to have
that on my conscience. :rolleyes:
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
This isn't being awkward, it's about the principle. Have any?
Plenty. They don't extend to messing around with transaction verification. They
do extend to taking care of my family.
SD on 4/9/2007 at 17:40
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
This isn't being awkward, it's about the principle. Have any?
Quote Posted by Pyrian
Plenty. They don't extend to messing around with transaction verification. They
do extend to taking care of my family.
Well, luckily we have guys like this who are prepared make a stand when we're too much of a fucking pussy to do so. You probably think Rosa Parks shoulda just got up out of that seat too.
SubJeff on 4/9/2007 at 18:01
Word. Just because you don't have the balls to stand up for your rights, Pyrian, don't knock those that do. Heck, this guy is doing us all a favour.
37637598 on 4/9/2007 at 18:39
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Heck, this guy is doing us all a favour.
Favor. How? By wasting the time of a police officer who i'm sure has much more important things to attend to? I can see what he did as being an accomplishment, but aside from that, it was a waste of time and money. He made a stand up to something that really doesn't matter. If they want to check your reciept, go somewhere else If you don't like it. If you want to make a point, take it to a journalist who can publish it in the new york times. Otherwise it makes no difference other than he can feel better about himself and tell his freinds. But it will really make absolutley no impact on anything whatsoever. People will respect what he did and I do believe in exercising our civil rights as Americans, but this was more of an example of being a punk. I will fight for my rights, but to make a scene because a store is trying to keep much needed profit to it's fullest, even if it is a corp. seems just inconsiderate to your own tax money.
Tonamel on 4/9/2007 at 18:58
Quote Posted by demagogue
As for the receipt check ... I think it's a wash. A store is actually legally protected to do a certain number of things to prevent theft, including a bag check and then temporary restraint if there's resistance, as long as there's a reasonable suspicion first
I think the "reasonable suspicion" is why he kept asking them if they were accusing him of shoplifting, i.e. "Do you have any reason to search my bag?"
*Zaccheus* on 4/9/2007 at 18:58
Quote Posted by SD
It would only happen in the USA
:rolleyes:
SubJeff on 4/9/2007 at 19:36
Quote Posted by 37637598
Favor. How? By wasting the time of a police officer who i'm sure has much more important things to attend to?
By standing up for his rights and yours. And if he wins (as he should) it will be an education for this cop, and all his buds who know about the case, AND all cops who read about it/see it on the news. Next time a couple of idiot retail workers try to violate someone's rights these cops will tell them to stfu and then go off to do something important that ISN'T a waste of time and money, and ISN'T a violation of someones rights. Though I can't guarantee that last part :P
Quote:
If they want to check your reciept, go somewhere else If you don't like it.
Lol. If you don't want to be called a nigger go somewhere else if you don't like it logic what?
