Shakey-Lo on 11/9/2007 at 14:31
I am honestly disgusted that people have donated $3500 to this dickhead. Sure, whatever, he's standing up to the slippery slope effect, okay fine, but asking for (and receiving) donations is beyond belief. Can't people donate to an actual charity? In this world we have sex slavery, human trafficking, millions of people without food or water, torture, some real human rights violations. Plus, the money would go a lot further in aiding these causes than the cause of "somebody being asked to show their receipt" :rolleyes: :erg: :mad: :nono:
Stitch on 11/9/2007 at 14:47
Quote Posted by fett
But why? There are lots of principled people who are assholes. Not the point of the thread but it's a distinction I don't think everyone's getting. I just don't believe his motivation had anything to do with his rights, I think it has to do with blog fodder and getting attention.
I'm just not seeing that. Or at least I didn't in his original post, which I thought was fairly even, and his actions--as described--were some very, very, very, very minor variant of heroic. He stood up for his rights in a situation in which most would have folded, and for that I applauded.
But now he has officially lost all support from me due to your next point:
Quote Posted by fett
Now he's going to court and quoting Ayn Rand? If he REALLY wants to make a heroic stand for civil rights, there are about a million ways to do it that don't purposefully draw attention to himself.
oh god it's so true :(
Swiss Mercenary on 12/9/2007 at 03:50
Quote Posted by fett
Now he's going to court and quoting Ayn Rand? If he REALLY wants to make a heroic stand for civil rights, there are about a million ways to do it that don't purposefully draw attention to himself. :tsktsk:
The entire point of civil rights is drawing attention to them.
Not to say that he isn't an attention whore.
He may be making mountains out of molehills, but when enough molehills pile up, it's probably a good time for someone to do a clean sweep.
the_grip on 12/9/2007 at 04:35
Quote Posted by Rug Burn Junky
instead of becoming a de facto standard because too many cowards are afraid to stand up for themselves
Or too many people, who may or may not be cowards, really couldn't care less (like myself). i could give a rat's ass if some snotty nose douche wants to see my receipt before i leave a store, or if some hyperactive cop wants to see my license. i don't see it as impending facist doom lingering around the corner; i don't feel treated like a criminal. Sure, a store could be more creative about preventing theft instead of, "Can i see your receipt?" but i really don't feel like it is worth my time to fight that battle. Life's too short and time is too valuable. If this guy wins, great... but does he feel that was time well spent?
i do recognize and affirm the principles this arrested guy is after, but at the same time... holy shit this guy ain't Ghandi with his "civil disobedience" and we don't live in some neo-facist totalitarian shithole. This guy is a twat. "Oh, shit, I caused trouble and now I have to deal with it? WTF!" How about this - don't be a douche and you won't get shit (or at least most of the time you won't). If you have a problem, deal with it like an adult instead of pulling a bunch of immature crap and whining about it.
Of course, the biggest dumbass in the story is the CC manager. Who in their right mind runs out to a car to check a receipt... is a bullet in the head worth a couple of bucks gone? That guy needs to pocket his crack pipe for after work, not during.
Just my two cents.
Turtle on 12/9/2007 at 05:05
Quote Posted by the_grip
and we don't live in some neo-facist totalitarian shithole.
And do you know why that is?
That's right! Because some people stand up and make a fuss when someone steps on their rights.
Good job!
PigLick on 12/9/2007 at 05:47
I am sure plenty of people in neo-facist regimes have stood up for their rights from time to time, except they are now probably dead.
the_grip on 12/9/2007 at 06:23
Quote Posted by Turtle
And do you know why that is?
That's right! Because some people stand up and make a fuss when someone steps on their rights.
Good job!
Somehow i'm not able to make the sum total of people refusing to reveal receipts, refusing to reveal driver's licenses, and other minor quibbles equal to the avoidance of totalitarianism. Maybe i just see the huge difference between the prevention of facism and the results thereof. There are definitely right infringements worth standing up against, but this is overkill.
Regardless, the guy does have the right to contest all of this, but i still maintain contesting such a minor infringement is akin to sue happy Americana. It's a waste of public money, it's a waste of everyone's time, and the only thing it provides is humor.
But hey, it's a free country, so you obviously can disagree.
Starrfall on 13/9/2007 at 00:25
See this is the problem, we've got this really lame ass "well I didn't want to let him look at my receipt" thing where he really sounds like a smug whiny bastard and really he should have just given the door guy a break because he's just trying to do his job.
But after that we have the much more disturbing issue of "and when I didn't let them they physically prevented me from leaving". THAT shit isn't cool even if he's a smug whiny bastard. There are defenses to false imprisonment and "he was a smug whiny bastard" isn't one of them. Store managers can't be going around detaining people all willy nilly, even if it means we have to put up with a smug whiny bastard once in a while.
fett on 13/9/2007 at 00:45
Quote Posted by Starrfall
But
after that we have the much more disturbing issue of "and when I didn't let them they physically prevented me from leaving". THAT shit isn't cool even if he's a smug whiny bastard. There are defenses to false imprisonment and "he was a smug whiny bastard" isn't one of them. Store managers can't be going around detaining people all willy nilly, even if it means we have to put up with a smug whiny bastard once in a while.
Right on Starry - that's exactly when any of us should have called the police. It's just stupid that he had to do it over such an insignificant thing in the first place.
LesserFollies on 13/9/2007 at 15:57
I agree with that. I don't want anyone walking away from this thread thinking I'm some sort of meek doormat who believes the guy should have been arrested, and that I believe the store manager and security guard were correct in their actions. I don't. I'm a huge supporter of personal rights: I believe people should have the right to grow whatever they damn well please for their own personal use in their closets, and often do so. I believe people should have the right to wear subversive and/or borderline obscene t-shirts in public, and often do so. I don't mow my lawn very much, and I willingly harbor raccoons, bats, possums, rabbits, carpenter bees, dandelions and other undesirable creatures my neighbors wish I wouldn't. I'm an incorrigible trespasser: if I find myself in an empty building I explore it. In my time I've broken curfews, gathered illegally and hidden from police who were searching for me. I've never been arrested, but it wasn't from lack of trying. Given all that, I still would have shown my receipt, and having called the police, ponied up my ID. Why? Because I don't give a shit about the "privacy" of my shopping bag, and I appreciate being able to call the fucking police in the first place.
In other words, I don't hand anybody lube! o9
One man's lubing is another man's inconvenience, I guess. :D
