Scots Taffer on 4/9/2007 at 02:49
(
http://robnebiker.typepad.com/weblog/2007/09/papers-please-a.html) Interesting little slice of life from America, which tells the story of a guy who - more or less - knows his rights and isn't willing to agree to company policies that aren't legal, but the problem is that these policies are enforced as legal by companies, treated like law by most of society, and when it comes down to it, standing up for your legal rights in these matters is viewed with a squirming awkwardness that amounts to "stop being an asshole, just stand and deliver" or met with a belligerent attitude from authority figures that borders on facism.
I don't think this guy approached the situation in the best way (upset his siblings and got his dad to pay bail), but then, I can't say I fault the guy either as he was completely in the right.
Most of the internet consensus on this I've witnessed thus far has amounted to: "I hate those type of people" or "asshole got what he deserved", which I think are unfair and also pretty surprising. What do you guys think?
Pyrian on 4/9/2007 at 03:09
Y'know, I'm all for teaching people the limits of their authority, but he could've pulled this showdown at any time, rather than choosing to maximize his family's inconvenience.
BEAR on 4/9/2007 at 03:14
Its pretty hard-assed to refuse to let the CC people check your stuff, I dont exactly understand his issue about that. My thought is this: they are working retail at a circuit city, cut them some slack.
On the other hand, I get irritated by it as well sometimes when I pay for the shit and I walk strait to the door from the checkout and the alarm sounds, usually I just walk on calmly and if they want to chase after me they are welcome but you just fucking saw me check out and walk off Im not going to go out of my way.
The identification issue though I whole-heartedly agree with. It was my understanding as well that you didnt have to show identification to the police just because they ask for it, the problem being that like you said, wether or not its legal its enforced as if it were and there is nothing stopping them from throwing you in jail for a night no matter who is right.
Its a shame but people really are afraid of the police, and with good reason, because if you have trouble with a policeman you cant really call the police because they will always side with eachother first and sort the rest out later.
Nobody here really knows their rights, most of it is second hand knowledge like 'someone told me that you dont have to do this' etc.
I have respect for the guys 'fuck you Im right' attitude, we shouldnt have to bow down or be afraid of the people we pay to protect us.
Ko0K on 4/9/2007 at 03:36
I personally think he acted like a hard-assed fundie, although I can't say that he's wrong for insisting on his citizens rights. As far as I'm concerned, one can be on either side of this and still not be right or wrong.
Stitch on 4/9/2007 at 04:05
I completely support and applaud this guy's actions, especially as I then know someone else is out there fighting the good fight as I cave to keep from sabotaging my little sister's birthday party.
Turtle on 4/9/2007 at 04:40
Quote Posted by Pyrian
Y'know, I'm all for teaching people the limits of their authority, but he could've pulled this showdown at any time, rather than choosing to maximize his family's inconvenience.
So, you'll let the cops smack you around this time because you're in a hurry, but next time you'll stand up for your rights?
It doesn't work that way, kiddo.
You either stand up for yourself, or you don't.
(Yes, I know he wasn't smacked up by the cops. It's just an example.)
Scots Taffer on 4/9/2007 at 04:46
Quote Posted by Stitch
I completely support and applaud this guy's actions, especially as I then know someone else is out there fighting the good fight as I cave to keep from sabotaging my little sister's birthday party.
Timing is everything, isn't it? Indeed, this was the only area where I'd say he
was an asshole.
crunchy on 4/9/2007 at 05:27
I think he didn't go far enough. He should of escalated the situation into a full blown hostage negotiation situation where the SWAT get called in and every news station has a chopper overhead.
That really would have made his sister's birthday memorable!
Pyrian on 4/9/2007 at 06:06
Quote Posted by Turtle
It doesn't work that way, kiddo.
Damn straight it does. The world isn't black and white; rights aren't equally important; "slippery slope" arguments almost never hold in practice. He had every luxury to pick his battles, when and where. And no matter what you may try to disclaim in small print, his situation was in no way comparable to being subjected to violence and shouldn't be treated as such.
BTW, by simply stating that a transaction is not complete until it is verified (hardly an unreasonable requirement), the store could very well be completely within its rights.
SubJeff on 4/9/2007 at 06:29
Slipper slope arguments most certainly DO hold. If it had been you you'd just have caved, that cop and those CC staff would never know any better and they'd try to pull that crap on someone else the next time.
If CC had been able to search the bag for other reasons, fair enough. This isn't being awkward, it's about the principle. Have any?
