LesserFollies on 26/9/2008 at 19:15
You are, as always, an ignorant ass and a troll.
But gg on that consistency. :thumb:
xxcoy on 26/9/2008 at 21:16
You won't "gain" anything from a real depression.
Your approach to the issue is idealistic but unluckily unrealistic too.
You can't overcome a depression caused by brain chemistry with some "deeper understanding of life". You might rather end up killing yourself instead. If you even have the strength to do it.
I'm no fan of "happy meds" like Prozak either - but not because they are trouble to those who actually need them. They're trouble for those who only think they would need them.
That is why they are restricted strictly here - but in the US that's a different story and it's not my concern to attack that handling. I do not know enough about it to judge it although I see your point. I only don't think one can apply that to someone without being a psychologist or neurologist and having examined the case at hand.
I do have some patients in that condition and if the depression kicks hard they cry because they let a piece of soap fall in the shower. There is nothing rational about that pain anymore then.
Mostly after medication those phases end or get much better again so the meds are reduced strongly or settled.
But those people might have to take them again if the problem comes back. Most are additionally attended to by psychological therapy but that's just one part of treating the condition.
They at least live normally in the meantime and most of them know that that is the best it can get.
There is a lot of misinformation about depression floating around and it seems to be a highly ideological influenced issue to some people. Most of the thoughts they have would be the right way for those who call their state of mind "depressed" and mean unhappy or stressed.
But they do not help those suffering from real depression.
Alchemist, I hope you'll feel less tired with the new medication. A good friend of mine suffered from the same avolition induced by some meds he today does not need anymore fortunately. He told me it was one of the most limiting side effects to him and he really hated that.
Aerothorn on 27/9/2008 at 00:50
Woh, lots to say.
First off, typical "I am not a doctor" preface, but as someone who has been (and is) on quite a variety of medication I have a lot of experience with this - and last year I took an abnormal psychology class and choose to focus on controversies in medication.
First, a lot of people are going to tell you that medication is unnecessary and is a big conspiracy on the part of the drug companies. Ignore them. Don't get me wrong; drug companies do push medication, often in unethical ways, and yes, the medical establishment can be complicit. Caution is advised. But that doesn't change the fact that for some people, drugs are the best solution.
A lot of people will advocate therapy - and they're right. You should look into it if you haven't done it yet. Helps a lot of people. But, like medication, is does not work for everyone (does not work for me, unfortunately).
Next, on the issue of lexapro: despite what a previous poster said, lexapro is NOT citalopram. Go to (
www.crazymeds.us) for the whole story (and tons of useful info on drugs), but the basic story is that citalopram was an anti-depressant that recently went generic, marketed under the name Celexa. Just about the exact same time it went generic, the company that makes it pulled out a new drug (lexapro - forget the scientific name) that is very similar to citalopram, yet is not generic. There are, AFAIK, no studies showing that it is more effective than the cheaper citalopram. So at the very least, ask your doctor about switching to citalopram; it's cheaper and is unlikely to make a difference.
Finally, if the pill is giving you issues, but being unmedicated is not appealing: TRY DIFFERENT MEDS. Seriously, human physiology is very diverse, and AFAIK, most meds don't work for most people. I had to try out quite a number of meds before I found one that was effective (the infamous Effexor) - and after a few years that stopped working and I had to move to a new cocktail (a combination of citalopram, busparone (sp?) and gabapentin).
This new cocktail is not perfect. The buspar is experimental - who knows what nasty things might happen down the road. I get hot flashes every night. If I forget to take my pills I have nasty withdrawal effects. But it bets the hell out of not being on them, as I found out over the summer when I tried to ease myself off my pills.
Scots Taffer on 27/9/2008 at 07:48
Gotta agree marginally with Kolya, though he's being abrasive, he's right that there will undoubtably be a honeymoon period for the new drug. Give it some time and try to keep a positive frame of mind, keep up the therapy and if you start to feel the effects of the Proxac fade, don't hop onto something stronger. Hope it pans out though, dude. I've only ever struggled with mild depression on occasion, and I like to call it middle-class depression anyway, not anything particularly meaningful or systemic.
scumble on 27/9/2008 at 09:04
I'd like to say something about my experience with citalopram - I took it for several months and stopped in April I think. Initially the drug made me feel worse, but after a couple of weeks I got the characteristic lift in mood, but this lasted for a short period and I started to feel as wretched as I was before. Dose increased, I stabilised my mood and carried on but the effectiveness of this treatment wore off. I got to the point where I wasn't sure why I was taking them any more, but supposedly you are meant to come off them after 6 months or so.
I think the drugs served their purpose and I was safe to move on, with some side effects over a week or so. Ultimately I don't like the idea of being medicated, but I can understand why people get to the point of desperation with the way they feel all the time, like a broken person basically.
The trouble is, you go to the doctor telling them you are depressed and tablets are the early option, when what one really needs is an idea of the underlying causes. Antidepressants suppress symptoms without helping you find out what's behind your inability to take control of your mood.
The problem I have is probably with hypoglycemia, which can result in lethargy and depression. It's a dietary problem because I can't cope with carbs like most people - corn syrup, processed wheat, sugar - it gets into so many things and my energy levels just plummet along with my mood after eating things like white bread, or drinking coke. Particularly while in the US I have to avoid most soft drinks because they are little more than flavoured corn syrup and water. It's possible that the prevalence of corn syrup in nearly everything messes up quite a few people.
Well, if there's a lesson in my story, perhaps it is that prozac might be useful in the short term, it is a bad idea to become dependent on it or any similar drug.
Quote:
So anyway thanks everyone! With this newfound enthusiasm I'll re-establish my workout routine, and with this new peace of mind I can sleep easier and re-establish my daily schedule.
That's what it is really about - and hopefully you'll know the right point to get off the medication. It may be worth thinking about your diet to see if you are suffering from something you are consuming regularly. I think I have noticed a helpful effect from keeping off sweetened snacks and drinks like coke, for example. I still eat too much wheaty stuff, but even an element of one's diet can have a significant impact if it is changed.
LesserFollies on 27/9/2008 at 20:53
There's a lot of misunderstanding about anti-depressants in this thread. (Perhaps those who admit they've never experienced serious, endogenous depression or don't have any real knowledge of it shouldn't be chiming in?)
And, scumble, what is this "inability to take control of your mood" nonsense? That's like telling a diabetic to take control of his body's insulin production. Endogenous depression, unlike situational depression, is chemical, and requires a chemical cure. (And it IS a cure, not a masking of symptoms.) No amount of self-awareness or talk therapy is going to help if your brain's awash in the wrong chemicals, just as anti-depressants are of little or no benefit to those with situational depression.
The fact is, ideally anti-depressants are only taken for a short while, until the brain can maintain its chemical balance without help. Some people, however, need to take them longer or indefinitely. Everyone's different. There is no "tolerance" buildup with antidepressants; a certain dose or drug is either going to work for you or it's not. Nor do you become dependent on them: you either need them or you don't.
I don't think this thread is a good time or place for this debate, which is why I used the word troll, and why I am sorry for being unable to resist the temptation to post about it AGAIN. :tsktsk: I do apologize to Kolya for what I said; it was out of place as well.
Glad you're feeling better, Alch.
edit: being at the top of page two makes me feel so SAD
PigLick on 28/9/2008 at 01:30
post more, it'll make you feel better ;)
Scots Taffer on 28/9/2008 at 01:46
Quote Posted by LesserFollies
There's a lot of misunderstanding about anti-depressants in this thread. (Perhaps those who admit they've never experienced serious, endogenous depression or don't have any real knowledge of it shouldn't be chiming in?)
I'm not a racist. I have a black friend.
Aerothorn on 28/9/2008 at 23:29
Quote Posted by LesserFollies
There is no "tolerance" buildup with antidepressants; a certain dose or drug is either going to work for you or it's not. Nor do you become dependent on them: you either need them or you don't.
While you're right in that there isn't a "tolerance" build-up in the sense of the word, it is true that drugs can lose their efficacy over time - my understanding is that this has to do with natural changes in brain chemistry etc., but I don't know for sure - but it DOES happen.
As far as becoming dependent, one actually can become dependent on SSRIs (there's something known as SSRI withdrawl disorder or something) - but it's quite rare.
LesserFollies on 29/9/2008 at 18:49
Both tolerance and dependence can happen, in a very small percentage of cases. But they're rare enough to say that in general those things DON'T happen, and certainly don't happen enough to warrant advising someone who needs antidepressants to avoid them, which seemed to be what some people were doing. I will agree that they're over-prescribed and that getting the right drug and dose can be fiendishly difficult, but the difference they make to the quality of life in the right cases can't be argued with.
