The Alchemist on 24/9/2008 at 16:26
Lolz intarnet givez life advis plz.
If this is TL;DR, go to the line of hashes #############
Look, the reason I'm posting this here is because I have no clue where to get proper help. America is well known for pushing all sorts of pills down peoples throats and I very much respect the generally educated (or pretend anyway) opinion of the international TTLG community. This is my problem:
I've been a generally manic depressive person most of my life. I used to cut myself as a kid etc etc boo hoo emo boy. Anywho, when I started college I fell into a pretty bad depression and I failed a semester (or two) and decided I should take some time off to get my head straight. During this, I needed to get a job and a place to stay because my father/mother aren't an active part of my life and I couldn't bare being a burden to my grandparents anymore (and, being retired, they couldn't afford it anyway), so I moved out, got a nice tech job making more money than anyone I knew in my age group, and moved into a nice apartment across the street from my school in hopes that eventually, I'd be able to reduce my work schedule so I could just jogg across the street to my school. Things were going ok, but living alone (with my bestfriend, actually, but alone in terms of family, no one ever visited me or gave a shit), started taking a toll on me and my girlfriend at the time joined the military (you'd be surprised how many people I know joined the military after 9/11 and since then) so I was left alone with what I thought was a dead end job (despite its great pay) because it was not in my career field, and I was locked to the job because I really didn't see any opportunities to reduce my schedule so that I could also go to school and somehow fix my fucked GPA. Out of desperation, I guess, around this time I decided to use my surplus of cash to take a trip to Brazil and try and fix things up with an ex (highschool crush and all). Thing's didn't go well and I spent a week in Brazil pretty heartbroken.
The story speeds up now I promise.
When I got back to Miami I was at a loss. I didn't see a way of paying for my apartment (or even a cheaper one) and going to school at the same time, I didn't have any relatives to move in with other than my grandparents who could hardly afford the intrusion to begin with. I started doing drugs pretty heavily. Needless to say, I lost my job because I kept coming in late (well, it was also partly due to the subprime mess and a fall in demand on the real estate side), and I was thus forced to move back in with my grandparents temporarily. I kept doing drugs, medicating my depression and numbing my pains etc, until one day I did a bit too much and I was rushed to the hospital. I woke up in the mental health ward, and I was forced to stay there for a week because they thought the combination of drugs I took was a suicide attempt.
I got out, I cleaned up, I got a job, I got an apartment again, and I'm now taking lexapro to help with my depression. The whole situation also brought my family closer to me a little again, my mom and dad decided to take a bit of responsibility for me despite me being far too old (23) at this point for that sort of thing but it's nice that they're trying anyway. But now I'm obviously the black sheep of the family who has some sort of mental illness and is a drug addict. Luckly -some- of the family understands that drug abuse is a symptom, not a cause, of what I was going through before. Severe depression etc.
Anywho, my problem now is that I've never felt normal again. If you want to argue or simply make jokes that I fucked up my head with all the chems then go ahead, but I'm thinking something far more specific. The lexapro is a weak antidepressant but it does change my behavior, people say I'm not as enthusiastic or "alive" as I used to be, and I said yeah well it's part of it keeping me calm etc (I'm also a tad OCD and I have social anxiety problems so I don't mind it making me calm). But what I've noticed gradually is that nothing looks the same anymore. Everything looks surreal, people feel far away and alien, not alive. Plants feel like background, they don't feel like living, breathing, thriving things. I have trouble looking at a horizon of buildings and trees, I can't take it all in at once, I can only seem to focus on certain features of it at a time. And in inverse, if I look at something in close detail, such as the roots of a tree or just pebbles on the floor, I can't seem to see them for what they are, it looks like a big bloob of things, I have trouble focusing on the individual parts as a whole, etc etc I could go on.
And I'm tired of it, I'm tired of not feeling normal. It makes me more stable sure, I don't get as depressed as I used to where I wanted nothing more than to slice myself to bits, but I do have moodswings, I go from really happy to really angry, fast. I sometimes find myself unnecessarily yelling at my fiancee (oh yeah somewhere between all that I got hitched with a gorgeous russian girl) and my family. And sometimes I (here goes my manhood) just start crying for no reason. I don't know if I how I feel now is better than how I felt before the meds. I can't decide, because I can't remember well enough. I don't know if how I feel now is product of the meds at all, or just product of my experiences and the @_@ drugs. I have a lot of questions that I don't think anyone can really answer. I am seeing a therapist and he helps but only momentarily. I still find myself depressed pretty often, but it's really transient. Mood swing type depressions that I can't really control, and depression sucks period so I can't really say weather it's as bad as it was before the pills, or if it's an improvement, or what.
TL;DR: #################
So in summary, I'm taking a weak antidepressant and I can't tell if it's helping me feel better, hence I can't decide weather I need a better one (was thinking Zoloft) or I should just try not taking it at all. I can guarantee you that I definitely have depression problems that extend beyond circumstantial things, please don't argue this with me because I would know better about this than you would, considering it's something I've delt with for a long time. Weather those depressions are something I should just deal with upfront or try to medicate is what I am uncertain of. Weather this pill is right for me or weather I should take a stronger one is what I am uncertain of. I know the pills work, some work better than others, but I don't know if it's worth diluting who I am. I already feel strange enough taking these pills, the plus side being that I'm not -as- depressed as I used to, although it has some other pretty loltastic side effects (like making me really violent). I don't know if I should pursue a stronger pill that has better effect on my depression, will better treat my compulsive behavior, and will better chill me out. The obvious downside? It will change who I am, further muddling with my collective self identity. And more over, it will mess with things like my perception of every day things and that really, really, bothers me. I want to look at a field and see a fucking field, with every detail present, not the tunnel vision surreal painting I get while on these meds.
I don't go to my doc for this advice because I know American doctors will just tell me, yeah, you need to be on something stronger, here's Zoloft or Lithium or Plutonium or something insane. I want an international opinion on what I should do here. I'm also terrified of the withdrawal symptoms, I inadvertently found a website with people complaining about all the terrible side effects they've suffered after withdrawing from their dosage and it's not something I ever want to feel, and I don't intend to have to take these pills forever. Or perhaps I do? How does one properly measure how mentally/emotionally disturbed they are? To my credit, I've never killed anyone!
So what should I do? Stop taking the lexapro all together and see how I fair? Try Zoloft for a while and see if I'm more comfortable with how it makes me feel/perceive? Please, give me some constructive advice.
Thief13x on 24/9/2008 at 17:24
FYI I didn't read your ENTIRE post because I'm kinda on the run at the moment, but if you're dealing with minor-moderate depression, try St John's Wort (available at walgreens and walmart or any drugstore). It's the primary substance used over in Germany to treat depression and has little to no side effects and no withdrawl whatsoever.
The downside is it takes a few weeks to kick in and is not entirely effective in treating severe depression
The upside is it's ridiculously cheap, available without a prescription, and makes you feel alot better, and effective with minor-mod levels of depression, and it's an herb. Plus it's used as the primary means of depression treatment in several countries besides Germany as well
SD on 24/9/2008 at 17:39
Before taking Thief13x's advice on St John's Wort, I'd advise seeing a doctor, as though the herb is reasonably safe on its own, it interacts with a lot of other drugs and causes some not-so-pleasant effects.
(The old Strontium Dog would have suggested that anyone following Thief13x's advice on anything needs to see a doctor anyway, but that would have been plain mean)
On anti-depressants in general: their efficacy is highly questionable. Prozac is taken by 40m people, but it's (
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/feb/26/mentalhealth.medicalresearch) no better than placebo. Don't stop taking whatever it is you're taking on my account, but I can't say I'm surprised it's not having much of a positive effect.
Withdrawal can be pretty shitty, but so long as you wean yourself off them slowly rather than going cold turkey, you should be okay.
I wouldn't recommend stronger anti-depressants. I don't want to sound like a cheap self-help video, but everything you need to be happy is within you. From personal experience, nothing has ever made me feel better than eating good quality food and getting regular exercise.
DaBeast on 24/9/2008 at 18:19
Quote Posted by Thief13x
The downside is it takes a
few weeks to kick in and is not entirely effective in treating severe depression
It can actually take a few months to work.
Alc, alot of what you've talked about reminds me of myself. Particularly the not feeling normal, by that you mean like you used to yea? I often don't get a kick out of things I used to love years ago prior to an...episode I had. Like, I could be watching a film or playing a game or some music, or listening to my friends waffling on and on and I either don't get it or can't stand listening to them and end up blocking it out or something like that. Ultimately I can sometimes feel a bit empty for want of a better word.
Anyway, stick with the anti-depressants and keep your chin up. I've found that music or comedy is a good pick me up. Anything that makes you smile really. You will likely think at some point that the meds aren't working or you don't need them anymore and that's just plain wrong.
Also, some anti-depressants have come crazy assed side effects, one type for example lists side effects as "suicidal thoughts"....wtf kind of anti-depressant is that?! Keep an eye on shit like that.
BEAR on 24/9/2008 at 18:26
Quote Posted by SD
From personal experience, nothing has ever made me feel better than eating good quality food and getting regular exercise.
This.
Without taking some more time and thinking this through to suggest anything more useful, what SD said is totally right. I would bet there is no anti-depressant on the market that can beat good living.
I'm somewhat bi-polar, or at least at random times I'll have a bout of depression that isn't obviously related to anything specific, and a good run or workout and a nice meal (homecooked usually) almost always does the trick.
The problem is depression makes you not want to exercise a lot of the time, but you have to just make yourself do it. Find things that naturally release endorphins rather than relying on artificial substitutes.
Morte on 24/9/2008 at 18:27
Quote Posted by Thief13x
FYI I didn't read your ENTIRE post because I'm kinda on the run at the moment, but if you're dealing with minor-moderate depression, try St John's Wort (available at walgreens and walmart or any drugstore). It's the primary substance used over in Germany to treat depression and has little to no side effects and no withdrawl whatsoever.
The downside is it takes a few weeks to kick in and is not entirely effective in treating severe depression
The upside is it's ridiculously cheap, available without a prescription, and makes you feel alot better, and effective with minor-mod levels of depression, and it's an herb. Plus it's used as the primary means of depression treatment in several countries besides Germany as well
I'd stay away from it, as would I any other "natural" medicine. The efficiacy in this case is dubious, and in general even if there are proven active ingredients, you can't control dosage very well. We *do* isolate that stuff and turn it into pills for a reason.
It's shitty if you can't trust your doc to not just routinely drug you, but I'd still listen to a professional opinion if I were you.
My knee-jerk reaction is to drop them though, but then I'm not a doctor, and the only thing you can trust me with is your penis.
Thief13x on 24/9/2008 at 18:41
Quote Posted by SD
(The old Strontium Dog would have suggested that anyone following Thief13x's advice on anything needs to see a doctor anyway, but that would have been plain mean)
ah yes, the irony is that by not doing so you have, infact, comfirmed that you yourself need to see a doctor before your symptoms get any worse
As for SJW not being easily to control the does, they actually do put it into pill form which is what you get from the store. What others said is also true. You may want meds but that may not be the long term solution. When I got help it was a short term, and the long term strategy was exercise and not oversleeping, coupled with if you need help get it.
LesserFollies on 24/9/2008 at 19:00
I'm sorry to hear you're having all this trouble, Alchy. :/
I've personally been through a lot of what you're experiencing, and I'm here to tell you, there IS a light at the end of the tunnel. But you need to hang on tight, because it might be... kind of a longish tunnel.
23 is primetime for that kind of depression if you're prone to it. Chances are it will ease as you get older, but in the interim, go back to your doctor and tell him you need to try something else. Most people have to tinker with the meds til they find the right one/dose. Tell him everything you've been feeling. Some of the perceptual oddities you describe sound like the adjustment period in the first stages of any anti-depressant; how long have you been on them? After a while you'll feel a lot more normal. I seriously doubt it's a permanent result of a few years of drug use. Your brain's just trying to sort out its chemicals.
And to second the sound advice already given, yes: good food, exercise, take what comfort you can from the people in your life. Stick with the therapy. Most importantly, keep the faith that IT WILL GET BETTER.
(It's true and weird about the violent thing, though. One med I tried a few years ago gave me an incredibly uncharacteristic interest in watching boxing matches on tv. It was pretty funny.)
oh, and *hug*
Kaleid on 24/9/2008 at 19:07
Quote Posted by BEAR
This.
Without taking some more time and thinking this through to suggest anything more useful, what SD said is totally right. I would bet there is no anti-depressant on the market that can beat good living.
I'm somewhat bi-polar, or at least at random times I'll have a bout of depression that isn't obviously related to anything specific, and a good run or workout and a nice meal (homecooked usually) almost always does the trick.
The problem is depression makes you not want to exercise a lot of the time, but you have to just make yourself do it. Find things that naturally release endorphins rather than relying on artificial substitutes.
I have to agree with this as well. I ate Zoloft for two years and then come to realize that it didn't really help as much as it should. So I thought about on why did I use to be happier before and I instantly thought of how much exorcising I used to do. So I went back to and I have since that day felt so much better. I combine hard physical training with jogging at least 2 times per week. One should not overdo it however, since the body certainly needs rest.
I would also advise for looking at what you eat. Try staying away from all too sugary and/or fatty foods. Instead go for the slower carbs, healthy fats and lots of protein. This will stabilize the bloodsugar levels so life will become less of a rollercoaster ride.
Another tip I'd like to give is meditation. There have been plenty of scientific studies on its benefits. Search the web, there should be plenty of material to read.
Muzman on 24/9/2008 at 22:25
SSRIs are losing favour apparently these days. But my cursory reading of the above suggests the usual story of chasing the moods up and down with various things, without really knowing what the problem is.
Bipolar is serious business and not at all the same as serious depression, so the treatments are often quite different. If you or anyone else suspect there's more to it than 'just' serious depression (and what I read here seems to be all over the map) its worth trying to get a good solid diagnosis. That's not always easy or cheap, but it's probably worth hearing what a proper psych of some stripe has to say about it (not that I have the first clue about where to start there, being somewhat far away).
