Theef on 2/3/2002 at 17:04
Warning: This thread is rife with spoilers. Turn back now if you don't want it spoiled for you.
I'm playing H&G and, while it's linear, it's daunting. My inability to read Japanese hinders me greatly. I'm going about grabbing keys and trying to put them into doors and not getting anywhere. The map is no good, either. I can't find a sword, and there are precious little water arrows (I've only found one so far, and that opened a secret door, but it was useless because there was only a mage-character back there. No keys, no loot. Nothing. Some books which were integral to the plot, no doubt, but again, we're back to the language barrier.
I've gone down the ladder that leads to the room with two giant spiders and I've cleared out nearly everything on that level. I can't get past the North, South, East, West room that has the switch and the lock. I've been to three rooms, but there's one room still locked because I can't find the key. I've got almost no arrows left (3) and then I went down another well (I had to bust the door open on the upper balcony area using my blackjack). There was a "cell" right outside that door that I couldn't pick or open with any of the keys I've found up to this point. Really frustrating.
The worst is, when you come back up from being down in the well, and you've grabbed the medallion, there are haunts roaming all over the place. No holy water arrows. One flash bomb. No fire arrows. No sword.
Has anyone else had any luck with this mission? Sorry to ramble, but I'm trying to figure this out, and there really isn't much I can offer, as far as "where I'm at in the plot" because I have no clue.
Sock it to me Jesus!
-Theef
radioman on 2/3/2002 at 21:34
You're further along than I am.
[SPOILER]I'm in the room with the two cauldrons. There's a porticullus I can't open that seems to lead to a cistern or something that I need to climb down. The one key I've found so far doesn't open that porticullus.[/SPOILER]
Where did I go wrong? These Japanese missions are sort of like the Thiefish equivalent of Engrish. The stew's made of familar ingredients but is very different from what a Westerner would create.
Theef on 2/3/2002 at 22:47
I don't know if you went "wrong". Do you mean the room with the two cauldrons and the elevator? If so, you need to 'jack the hammer with the bow. He's got the key you need, IIRC. You're right above the level I'm stuck on. It seems that you go down the cistern by a ladder, and end up in a room with a guard and two spiders. By some luck, I lured the spiders out and they attacked and killed the guard. Then I (finally) hoisted myself up onto the wall of the cistern and shot the spiders dead with arrows.
I've gone back and started over. I still have my latest-saved game, but I'm really confuzzled. Good luck.
-Theef
Silver Sorrow on 3/3/2002 at 04:10
This mission is yet another sign that we Westerners are still the leaders in the field of Somewhat Logical Entertainment; that is, we make the missions that make sense (mostly). I suppose we're some sort of enigma to the Japanese, who in all likelihood consider us to be weirdos for our unseemly habit of playing FMs with a point. Now, I don't think the Japanese authors hate us specifically, but it sure feels like it.
Since I took Latin instead of Japanese -- and twelve years ago, at that -- it's probably not going to be an easy mission. I've already spurned the Elevator mission as I would spurn a rabid dog, and this mission might turn out the same way. At least it's sorta playable, though.
Okay, where I'm at as of now: I did get down from the ladder over the cistern, but it took some angled-jumping. I never could mantle out of the stupid water, so I had to jump in a weird way. Everything after that is a blur -- perhaps because I was focusing more on honing my grumbling skills -- until I got the medallion. Then the Haunts came out to play...and me without a sword. On a side note, I did manage to blackjack a Haunt with a bow, but that's just gravy.
After that, I quit in disgust and played the original Blood. Setting evil cultists on fire is the kind of feel-good therapy that should be taught in kindergartens across the land. ;)
Theef on 3/3/2002 at 22:54
Actually, I've just gotten beyond that part with the haunts. Here's how:
First, I got hold of the two flashbombs. You need them. I jacked the haunt with the bow and arrows. Then I ran to the far side of that courtyard and jumped up on the barrels and up the ladder. The sword-wielding haunt tries to come near, but if you hide at the top of the ladder, then you are in full shadows, and eventually, he calms down.
Then, you have to come up over the ladder, onto the rampart. Jump back up onto the (**very thin**) wall and stay on top of it all the way around, and you'll just stay out of his sight, and sneak past him. I delicately slinked off the wall at the end, and into the passage. I closed the doors behind me, and ran back with my new key (the one that was on the table in the courtyard with the bow-haunt) and opened up that last n/s/e/w passage room. I snuck up the side of the aisle, leaned over, grabbed the sword from the chest, and ran back and went up the elevator. Killed the undead with my new undead-processor, and got all the way back to the room with the cistern. Clearly, this is not the way out, but I'll be damned if I can find another. Just off the cistern room is a down-sloping ramp into a casino area. There's a locked, un-frobbable gate there. I think that might be gravy, if I could only find the way to open the gate.
God, I wish I'd learned Japanese.
Anyone else having luck? What I really like about this level is that it forces you to try out some really gutsy, thiefy moves. What I dislike is the fairly linear arrangement. It's not at all illogical, Sorrow. On the contrary, it's pretty straightforward. I blame only my own ignorance of Japanese that I cannot finish this mission. As for the cistern, I didn't jump at an angle. You can mantle out of that pool, it's just extremely difficult. My problem is that I cannot get back onto that ladder, and I can't find anything to throw into the pool to climb on top of. I tried rope arrows too (optimistically) to no avail.
Just my 2 pesos.
-Theef
Silver Sorrow on 4/3/2002 at 01:27
Okay -- I had missed the stupid key on the table by the bow Haunt. So I had to sneak by Join Us Boy twice. But seeing as how he had an unhealthy interest in a corner of the walkway, it wasn't hard to do. I let him continue his existence...hopefully he would eventually take care of those rotten bastards behind that locked fence who wouldn't let me in.
After using my new key on the lockbox that opened the locked door in the four-way room, I eventually found a looooooong drop into a well with buttons beside it, but no lift. I didn't see a sword along the way to that point, but I jumped anyway. I did manage to find a special sword later on -- although I didn't really see anything special about it besides its name -- and I threw a couple of AI into a lava pool.
One thing to remember past this point it to try and read everything -- by which I mean frobbing the thing -- because sometimes doors will open afterwards. And I didn't like the prospect of facing fire elementals without water arrows! When I play this thing again, I'll probably take some notes...
Yes, I finished it. I'll play it again sometime...but I still maintain that it isn't logical. Linear, yes, but not logical. :cheeky: ;)
Anyway, I didn't mind this one too much. It had a medium annoyance factor, but at least I finished it. It's worth playing again.
Theef on 4/3/2002 at 01:40
Perhaps you can help me then, Sorrow. How the hell do I get out of the level? Help!
-Theef
Silver Sorrow on 4/3/2002 at 05:50
...and of course, my connection goes down when I'm supposed to be commenting. That Road Runner must have sleeping sickness.
Okay...the key on the table in the courtyard goes to a lockbox on the board in the room with four doors. It opens the door that can't be picked or bashed. Behind the door is a deep well with a skeleton at the bottom. There are two buttons on a panel beside the well, but they do nothing, as far as I can tell. After dropping down there (I don't think it will hurt), the rest should be fairly easy to figure out. Or I may be fooling myself.
I still haven't figured out how to get in that locked room with the two morons by the courtyard. The woman even starts screaming bloody murder when I run by, which alerts the Haunt, who stands outside their doors and glares at them through the grate. I wish I could let him in there. :ebil:
Theef on 4/3/2002 at 12:16
OK, I'd gotten the sword, and I've gotten into the room you mention. The key to that room is in the room with "Brother Murus" behind a large painting on the wall (when you frob the painting, it makes a noise like a door that is locked). Keep on frobbing until the key appears in your inventory. It took me a long time, and I got it totally at random.
So I've opened that room, and there's not much to tell. I still can't get off this level.
-Theef
radioman on 4/3/2002 at 17:07
I'm still flailing about here with an uncharacteristic lack of thieving skill. I had a previous post to this thread and it instantly solved my problem - [SPOILER]because I had not frobbed properly a Hammer who was "relaxing" after we chatted. This is a rank newbie error and put me on the alert that the way the bodies frob for keys might be a little off. So trust me, I've have frobbed every body from every angle.[/SPOILER]
I'm in what I call the U-corridor [SPOILER]The short hall with the man and woman servants behind a porticullus is to the right and the hall to the room with the frobbable painting is to the left.[/SPOILER]
Again, I'm missing critical keys. I've been through every room and hall that leads off the room [SPOILER]after the spiders. I've frobbed every body and every object I can.[/SPOILER]
Any hints would be appreciated.:cheeky: