Ultraviolet on 2/1/2005 at 15:10
I can't agree. "Suspension of disbelief" factors in. It'd also seem less linear if there were a few more ways around the ship than they left us with.
They were concerned about atmoFINISHING THE GAME for their publishers. I can tell they had the necessary talent on hand to have made things much more convincing. They just didn't have the time.
Aekeron on 2/1/2005 at 16:43
It's not something that most people would really notice massively - especially on their first run through the game.
It's not just a question of being under time pressures by your publisher but the choice between spending a lot longer developing the game for very little improvement in game play (and opening the game up to a whole load of problems). A well designed ship would have many exits/routes. A well designed game has lots of those routes blocked until you progress further into the game. It's not exactly mutually exclusive, but there's a definite "bang for buck" in terms of development time.
Ultraviolet on 2/1/2005 at 21:30
I just think a proper ship would improve replayability and nonlinearity. Replayability is already pretty good because of character configuration affecting how you approach the route through the game, but multiple routes through the game adds another factor, and the replayability is ^2.
Waffnuffly on 2/1/2005 at 22:08
I totally agree with Ultraviolet. Yes, the ship's current design freaks the hell out of you when it needs to, but after you aren't scared anymore, you get a chance to really take in your surroundings. And then you realize how senseless they are.
Take the UNN Rickenbacker for example. That is, without question, THE worst-designed ship I have ever played through. The layout makes absolutely no sense. There is a room with four missiles that raise up and down, but no evidence of a hatch or other such device to get them to another necessary room, such as a launcher. And then there IS a launcher, but it's in the middle of nowhere. Just a random missile launcher room that fires a missile into space, crammed somewhere in the middle of the ship. I hope to God nobody ever had to try to operate that vessel in combat. Just reporting to battle stations would take so much time that the enemy would easily destroy all defenses and then the ship itself. :p
The first time I played through the Rickenbacker I was, of course, scared out of my mind. It was dark, there were Assassins and Rumblers and Midwives around, no recharging stations, only a few surgical units, and there was a layout that kept getting me lost or making me fall down and die. Sure, it scared me, yes. But because the layout is such a clusterfuck to navigate, it is now my least favorite part of the game. A realistic ship design would have been so much more fun to replay. Now I pretty much just stop playing the game once I finish my work on the Von Braun. That or I go back down to have fun in other ways, such as stocking up on grenades I mug off hybrids.
Ajare on 2/1/2005 at 22:57
If I had the time, I would design the most badass, cool, realistic spaceship ever. It'd take me a good decade or so, but we've all got time, right?
Actually, I note with interest that the two levels that I consider best-designed (MedSci & Rec) were made by LG designers, not IG people. From what I hear, a lot of the IG crew were pretty inexperienced at the time. And yes, Rickenbacker Pod 2 doesn't quite compare to the Sistine Chapel, but at that point in the game, you don't really want to get bogged down in exploration.
Ultraviolet on 2/1/2005 at 23:07
That's why a sensible ship design would work. You don't have to explore if it's easy to navigate, with surprises thrown into the main routes. You can just go straight to your destination, and the ship's directory system -- signs like on the rec deck on the VB perhaps -- will help you get there without getting lost even though you've never been there (without memory loss of course). You CAN explore, of course, and it should be made rewarding: Ammunition, health, additional plot interaction...
Ajare on 2/1/2005 at 23:42
Without wishing to sound patronising (fat chance), do you have any idea how boring a realistic design would be? Think about it: there is next-to-zero air resistance in space, so the shape of the craft wouldn't matter (it seems the Borg already know this :p). Thus, there are no space constraints on the layout of the interior - outside of docking on Earth. So it seems logical to place everything in a simple, regular layout. Maybe a few corridors, with all the rooms branching off them in a lattice. Plus, it seems just as contrived to arbitrarily block off a few doors on a realistic spaceship (can you think of a realistic reason why they're blocked?), as it is to intentionally design the level to achieve the same effect.
Look at SS1, how realistic is that design? On the Exec level, you have to go through a mile-long crawl-way to get to the lift to level 7.
Ultraviolet on 3/1/2005 at 00:03
It's got to be aerodynamic enough to land some place if it was built on the ground. You can make a ship that's not intended to land, but you don't want to strand yourself out in space in a situation where you HAVE to land.
I don't think a realistic layout would be boring at all. And yes, I can think up reasons why doors would be randomly blocked or locked off. "I'm getting some strange readings from that radar dish outside the window" sound familiar? Things like that are why some areas might be decompressed and the safety locks might keep those areas from being accessible. People might lock themselves into rooms to make a final stand only to find The Many attacking them through the air ducts. The Many bending Xerxes to its/their will is another reason for things to be unpredictably messed up. Xerxes already has the security systems turned against everyone, why wouldn't he lock down the ship too, leaving local bypassing of doors the only solution?
Personally, I think it would be pretty cool to find an area of the ship where Xerxes is still playing Elvis songs, 5 second clips back to back on loop, or maybe have an accidental side effect of a hack that the player does re-trigger that problem. This is a bonus of making a larger, less linear, more explorable areas -- you wouldn't want the Elvis section to be a mandatory part of the game progression, but it would get a chuckle out of people who pay attention to the logs.
As it is, the game has so few "easter eggs." Why not make room for more?
Aekeron on 3/1/2005 at 00:46
Whilst I agree with most of what you've said towards the end post, I think we've moved away from the original argument somewhat. Also, was the Von Braun built in space? I always thought it was...
Btw, I'm not arguing against a ship that has *some* kind of basis in realism... I'm just trying to defend a design decision to focus more on playability rather than realism and the like.
I'm more 'into' the med/sci areas here btw.. they seem to be more forgiving in terms of realism... or something
Ultraviolet on 3/1/2005 at 00:56
I think we can agree that they could have done better.
I think that they could have done better by making levels a little more logical, though.
