Malygris on 8/12/2007 at 22:40

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My confusion is surpassed only by my awe.

Rug Burn Junky on 9/12/2007 at 00:02

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Untwist your panties and grow a pair.

/edit

I was only bothering to throw all that shit out there because I have him whining about me not providing enough substance, and now you're whining about me providing too much? What the fuck is wrong with you? Honestly, are you allergic to the idea of actual knowledge of an issue informing your opinions?

On this particular issue, I happen to have more than most of you. However, I was quite happy leaving most of that out of this. You don't need that level of knowledge to get the basics right, but if your opinion is formed based on patently incorrect assertions (ie. these are price controls) then yes, that opinion is totally fucking worthless, and you do need more knowledge.

And your analogies suck, by the way. Structured Finance isn't an article of faith and this isn't a question of needing ten degrees in physics. If he's saying that nuclear waste is made of cheese, three people tell him he's wrong, and a nuclear physicist is telling him to stfu, would you be defending him then? Because that is what you're doing now.

the_grip on 9/12/2007 at 05:10

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Nice try - i very clearly made a point and then a sidebar about how difficult it is to have any semblance of conversation with all the insult trimmings you like to throw in.

Instead, you have attempted the exact opposite of what you describe:



You connect the dots. If you don't see it, go try reading what "ad hominem abusive" is all about (Wiki does a fine job). i can save you some time if you like... think, "You are wrong because you are too stupid to understand," or, if you prefer your words, "It irks me when the ignorant get uppity and decide to get pissed about shit that they don't understand."

Thanks for the synopsis of the issue in your last post, and i don't disagree with what you said in terms of what the issue is. i think it is as simple as the housing bubble turning into a financial game of hot potato for large investment firms. Some (Citi, E Trade, Merril Lynch) got stuck with the shit, and others (Goldman Sachs, Lehman Bros.) at least report that they are clear. When underlying loans start defaulting, yes, the repackaged bonds go haywire. It does not take a genius nor even a job in the financial world to grasp all this... it's painted every day all over the financial news. Indeed, these financial institutions don't even have to write the subprime loans to get exposed to them - which is why i'm sure you have a very personal vested interest in all this being a part of the whole system (as i referred to before). It doesn't matter if you are writing subprime loans or not.



Okay, let's see. Financial groups make bad choices, they get stuck with the consequences, and then there is a recommendation to limit the costs incurred. This is a recommendation for all these firms to set - ding ding ding - a control on the price of these things. i don't care if it is governmentally imposed or not - the effect is the same. The reason government is usually involved when it comes to price controls is indeed through legislation, but if the government comes out and recommends something along the same lines, the net effect is the same. The point remains - a price control is not a price control by nature of it being legislation/involuntary or not. Take, for example, a group of firms getting together to set a price ceiling or floor... would that thereby not be a price control? What is trying to happen instead is a blocking of the normal forces of economics that flush the shit down the toilet so the good stuff can grow. Instead, there is an advocation to pass on the costs from the people who made the bad choices in the first place... spread the shit all over everything instead of getting it dealt with appropriately. This whole thing is going to continue to snowball until it catches up. We create one bubble to counteract another, and another, and another, and now it is blowing up. It is going to work itself out one way or another. Putting in artificial price measures will not only produce unintended effects down the line, but it is going to drag this whole thing out that much more. This whole Paulson recommendation is a step in that direction. Going down this road is going to cause folks who should otherwise not have difficulties to start incurring them. Loan standards will over-tighten, etc.

In other words, you halt the price of the mortgages to let them drag out. These problematic loans are still going to tank whether or not you artificially freeze their price or not. Instead of letting the shit sink, you start tacking on new ways to potentially make them worse.

And no, i'm not sitting in a corner crying. i'm actually finding your attempts at insults to be entertaining. i also am not worried about "somebody... fucked over on their loan... I think it would serve them right" (cough, ad hominem, cough). i don't want anyone to get fucked over - that's not my point at all. i really don't even care that the ARM folks end up with a better deal than the fixed rate folks. In principle, i find it shit, but, as i mentioned in the first post, this whole bit is populist posturing to keep rolling a big snowball of shit down the hill instead of getting it dealt with.

Lastly, a quick Google on the topic will shoot you up some commentary on this being a form of price control. For example, The Motley Fool (although i'm generally not a big fan of faddish trading venues a la Jim Cramer, but i do agree with this guy after a quick read):

(http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2007/12/07/bushs-bailout-bait-and-switch.aspx)

See how easy that is without trying to call someone a fucking ignorant fool? You should try it sometime - studies show that angry negative folks generally live shorter and more unpleasant lives.

Rug Burn Junky on 9/12/2007 at 06:03

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THAT IS NOT AN AD HOMINEM, YOU STUPID IGNORANT FUCK. Go back and re-read your wikipedia entry, because you still don't understand it.

Congrats, you're a cute little dilettante on this issue. You're also still misguided. You have no practical experience in dealing with this, and I've already set out why you're wrong. Keep reading it until it sinks in, because I don't think it has for you yet.

I ain't wasting any more time on you. I get paid too much money to explain this shit to people, and you can't afford me.

Rug Burn Junky on 9/12/2007 at 06:16

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SHUT UP. SHUT UP. SHUT UP.

Stop using words you don't understand.
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Oh, by the way pssst. This, this right here? THAT is an ad hominem.