Neb on 13/7/2018 at 18:45
One time a friend of mine kept complaining for a few weeks about a guy who wouldn't leave her alone. We asked who it was, and offered to help by telling him to fuck off, but she kept refusing. Eventually, it turned out that it was someone we knew and that she really liked him. They ended up dating. I have no idea how much he knew that chasing after being told "no" was okay, or how obvious red lines are when you're the kind of person who flirts like that.
jkcerda on 13/7/2018 at 19:14
in today's "dating" scene where just about everyone puts out a simple "no" should suffice and send you to the next willing partner......
heywood on 13/7/2018 at 22:27
Quote Posted by icemann
When was it that a "no" stopped being a "playing hard to get"?
Since when was it ever? I think that the majority of the time, "playing hard to get" is a figment of the guy's imagination, wishful thinking. Sure there are examples of girls who say "no" to a guy they are secretly interested in, and later change their mind if the guy is persistent. But I've seen very few cases of that working out, and pretty much all of them were back when I was a teenager. When a girl tells you she's not interested, the vast majority of the time it means she's not interested. And the girls who are being straight up don't deserve to be harassed just because there might be some girls still left out there who want to play hard to get.
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In my experiences growing up there was A LOT of girls who played hard to get. Treating it as a game of sorts to try and get guys to impress them. Obviously a stern/aggressive "NO" is definitely a no, but when that's not the case, it's not always so clear cut.
When I was a school kid, there were girls who would flirt, say "no", and then flirt some more, leaving the guy confused about what to do. Most of the time, they were just enjoying the flattery/attention and would string the guy along for a while until they got bored or found another target to flirt with. Even if most guys would catch on to the fact they were being used, there was always some poor sucker with a crush and false hope. I haven't seen much of that in adulthood. A more common thing is that the girl wants to keep a friendship while the guy wants more, and the guy keeps trying to pursue her because he thinks he's seeing signs that aren't really there.
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I know many guys that enjoyed the chase to try and get them to change their mind. Note that I'm not justifying rape, or guys sexually assaulting women. Life's not all black and white that's all. Some like the chase, some are more straight up. It does make things confusing at times. I'm sure there are many here across both sexes that eventually dated someone who initially told them to bugger off. Such is the fun in life of changing someones mind on you. I just see it as that this is all something that is not always clear cut. We're not robots, we all come in different shades, all express ourselves differently and like/dislike different things. Plus we try to attract the opposite sex + like different things from those who make moves in our direction.
If we just say up is up and down is down (in this context) then that's not really true as to use a line from a Steven Wilson song "Truth is individual calculation, which means because we all have different perspectives, there isn't just one single truth is there".
You can't go around harassing women who say no to you on the off chance you might meet one of those rare birds who still wants to play coy chase games where "no" doesn't mean it. One of the consequences of #metoo is that girls who want to play that way are going to have to change their act or be lonely. Things are a lot simpler than they used to be.
In my experience, it's not hard at all to figure out when your attention is welcomed by a girl and when it is not. If it's not obviously welcomed, you leave her alone. Even if she welcomes your attention, she may not know yet whether she wants to date you or bed you or befriend you or none of the above. Same for you. That may take time. If you're lucky she may tell you what she wants or ask a question to start the conversation. More likely she will drop hints, hints to either go away or hints that she's interested. If you're not sure, ask, and respect the answer. If she says she's not interested, you leave her alone. And whatever you do, before initiating any contact that might be construed as intimate, ask. It's really not hard to keep yourself out of trouble.
SubJeff on 13/7/2018 at 22:37
Quote Posted by heywood
I haven't seen much of that in adulthood.
I, on the other hand, have seen it enough to know that it goes on a fair bit.
It depends on what the "no" is to anyway. Coffee? Dinner? Joining a few people on a trip to the beach? A ball? A shag?
Not wanting to do one does not mean you don't want the another.
Starker on 14/7/2018 at 01:26
I really don't get the "now we can't even flirt anymore" response to #metoo. Since when are things like men exposing themselves to women considered flirting? Am I just too old?
Tocky on 14/7/2018 at 03:27
Nah. I grew up in the seventies which was the height of sexual promiscuity and nobody said no when they meant yes. If they said no you might move on, but hell, I can't remember a no. It was obvious by the time you got to the heavy petting stage. Some lack the sense of when a woman is interested in them I guess. But how in hell does a guy like Henry not know? They must be hanging from chandeliers trying to straddle his face. I guess it goes to show how it's not looks but an ability to understand signals and how to respond to them. Damn the damage I could have done with a face like that though.
What I wonder is are women different now? Do they give you a BJ and then say no to penetration and how could you and all guys are the same like that one dude got? THAT was weird. That was a form of mental defect. This? This guy is some colossal dumbass apparently.
Starker on 14/7/2018 at 04:29
You'd think that if you have to chase a woman all over your apartment, it would be a clear sign that something's wrong. Apparently not. Also, she gave the BJ only briefly, because she felt she had to, not because she was up for anything. When someone pressures a woman into doing something sexual for them, it doesn't therefore mean that she's mentally deficient if she feels uncomfortable and doesn't want to go any further.
icemann on 14/7/2018 at 05:12
Not every guy is like Henry though. I get that people want to keep the discussion on him, but many of us are more broadly speaking. As its important to not just jump to the extreme end every time, as there are MANY other situations that this all falls under.
And the "no" is very context sensitive. Is it a question for a date, request to dance, offer of a drink at a bar, offer for a drive home? All context. If its a offer of sex sure no is no. But the rest are responses that can change.
She doesn't want to dance with you? Show off your sexy dance moves (I suck at dancing but maybe your better at it). Refuses the drink offer - Maybe some sweet talking might do the trick. Context is everything.
icemann on 14/7/2018 at 09:22
Used to love that cartoon :).