Renzatic on 15/1/2018 at 23:32

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Teaching women to be more assertive in these situations would solve a lot of problem. Most men don't want to be rapists, even when they're in the process of what could be construed as such. On that same note, most men need to learn that a lack of an explicit no doesn't mean there's an implied yes lurking around, and that you really need to pay the fuck attention to some body language. If you ever have to consistently harass and cajole someone to sleep with you, despite the light rebuffs and subtle pushes away, to the point they just go numb and give in like Aziz allegedly did in the story above, you're well on your way to committing a date rape.

Comeon, people. It shouldn't take you more than 10 minutes to figure out if you're gonna get laid that night, and it's usually pretty damn obvious when a woman is playing hard to get, and when she just isn't in the mood. If you have to face an hour of "I dunno...I dunno...I dunno" alongside some stiff posturing, then...no. Accepting the immediate disappointment is a helluva lot easier than waking up the next morning and realizing you might be a piece of shit.

Whether Aziz deserves the full on #metoo treatment is very much up in the air. But he was in the wrong. Completely.

Renzatic on 16/1/2018 at 00:21

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I think it was that, mixed with what most of us do in these situations where we suddenly find ourselves acting on our baser instincts (ie more balls than brains): we try to justify it. She gave him just enough room to continue on. "Oh, she did this. She wants it. She's alright with me going farther, even if she really isn't acting like it right now." Then the next day, he could always make the mixed signals argument to allay his guilt to himself.

It doesn't excuse it, but it explains it. You can't claim your extreme horniness overrode your sense of propriety, though some people do try.

Scots Taffer on 16/1/2018 at 03:31

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I think the fame comment is very presumptuous. Have you dated recently Brethren? More specifically, have you dated in the Tinder age?

Many people (both male and female) operate under the impression that buying dinner or drinks equates to a pre-paid sexual transaction. Sure, there's a significant presumption involved there and is a hollow, callous assessment of a human interaction - but in the digital age sex has become transactional and human behaviour has followed suit. So it is not a given that it'll happen but both men and women have found themselves in the situation where having a drink together does get you an express ticket to fuck city. I'm not saying this is anything new, drunken hook ups in bars have been happening for years, this just changes the context. People get into a tinder date (having drinks or not) and know there is an unspoken presumption about sex occurring. If anything, arguably tinder legitimises the bar hook-up to be taken on face value for what it is, people allowing alcohol to lower their inhibitions to have short term sexual interactions. Drunken one night stands are easier to cognitively dissonance your way out of if you get buyers remorse. A sober tinder hook up not so much.

I had a Tinder date where after buying the girl one drink she suggested taking it back to her place, even though we were supposed to be going out for dinner, and it quickly escalated into a bottle of wine and sex. I don't regret it but it certainly wasn't exactly my intention for the evening to end that way. Because I have agency (and a penis), it could easily be assumed I was the sexual aggressor. However in that instance I offered to grab an uber home, had texted a friend to advise that the night had escalated and she'd asked me to stay over... now in retrospect those were all very wise moves, given any potential for buyers remorse, but it was unnecessary because we were communicating openly throughout. It was a short lived relationship that lasted a couple of weeks and was entirely consensual but I can tell you that we were very drunk and not every single interaction got approval beforehand. There was plenty of fooling around and adjusting to each other on the fly which is basic human sexual compatibility (in my opinion)

The Aziz example is precisely why I think the issue of consent is very complicated - buyers remorse and regrettable sexual experiences following impulsive or compromised decision-making are a reality of human nature. To expect and presume people to operate optimally all the time and be having borderline autistic "do you want some tea" type conversations about sex is simply preposterous and a gross oversimplification of how we all operate. We can all get caught up in the moment and in the cold (sober) light of day reflect on our decision making.

Tocky on 16/1/2018 at 03:54

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I did read the full article. That is a lot of what confuses me. What person who is in the act of resisting someone gives them a blowjob? In my day we left the house and went home. Is a blowjob like a handshake now?

Renault on 16/1/2018 at 04:10

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I have not dated for over 25 years, so I may be very out of touch. But isn't dating through Tinder a lot different than other dating? Specifically using Tinder assumes sex, I assume, whereas just meeting someone out or through a friend of a friend would usually indicate you want to have some relationship potential. Or am I completely wrong there?

I guess I would pretty disappointed with...society?...mankind?...if just taking someone out for dinner one time meant you automatically asssumed sex was included with the deal. Call me old fashioned if you must.