SubJeff on 11/9/2013 at 10:33
This is another one of those over analysing cases that seem to be all over at the moment. GTA is about gangsters, gangsters are usually (not exclusively) male. They shouldn't have to even consider answering any more than "We just didn't."
Could they have a female protagonist? Or course. It'd be pretty different and I can imagine it opening up a lot of possibilities for the plot. But not having one shouldn't be questioned any more than not having a female lead in a Splinter Cell game.
GTA1 doesn't have the plot development of the later games, does it?
SubJeff on 11/9/2013 at 10:43
Hold up.
The bridge that the red arrow is pointing to is the bridge in the screenshot?!
june gloom on 11/9/2013 at 10:58
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
This is another one of those over analysing cases that seem to be all over at the moment.
Typical post from you. "Why aren't there more x in video games" "YOU'RE OVERANALYZING EVERYTHING!
GOD! CALM DOWN, EVERYTHING IS FINE AS IS"
Quote:
GTA is about gangsters, gangsters are usually (not exclusively) male. They shouldn't have to even consider answering any more than "We just didn't."
That's bullshit
and you know it. GTA isn't exactly specifically about gangsters. Even San Andreas, which started off basically mashing
Juice with
Boyz in the Hood, turned into
The Count of Monte Carlo for, oh, you know, 2/3rds of the game? What GTA is specifically about is
crime and criminal life. Look at Niko Bellic -- he has no real ties to any one criminal organization, but gets swept up in the machinations of the underworld because he feels he can't do anything else. Crime as a concept isn't exclusively male. I can't really say anything about GTAV -- maybe masculinity is a major theme in the game, maybe it isn't (it probably is though) so a female protagonist wouldn't work. That's not what I have a problem with. What I have a problem with is your immediate reaction to people wondering why GTA doesn't have female protagonists, which basically boils down to "ASKING ABOUT EQUAL REPRESENTATION IN MEDIA IS POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD."
If I sound like a social justice warrior lately it's because
everything you say is all about the status quo, which is what social justice tries to fight.
SubJeff on 11/9/2013 at 11:13
But this isn't my "immediate reaction to people wondering why GTA doesn't have female protagonists".
Wonder all you like. I even think it would be really interesting to have a female protagonist and it's a shame they don't have one actually. In fact if they did have one I'm not sure they'd be able to handle it in a non-misogynistic way!
This is my reaction to someone having to give an explanation to those people wondering, to Rockstar feeling pressured enough to issue some statement about masculinity or some such crap, to having to justify it. It's like I start writing a novel with a male lead and I suddenly have to explain why the lead is male. Fuck off, it's my book and this is how I'm doing it. Don't like it? Don't buy it. The next one might have a female lead but it all depends on what I'm writing and what I feel fits. Its not like the game is set in a convent and you're the only man there is it?
Diversity is important, but its important where it's relevant.
henke on 11/9/2013 at 11:15
R* have been pretty good about diversity in their main characters. SA even let you play as a fat guy! How many actiongames does that? I wouldn't be surprised if they've considered having a female lead in something for a long time now, but haven't managed to find the right game/story. So yes, not weird at all that they'd address the issue in an interview.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
This is my reaction to someone
having to give an explanation to those people wondering, to Rockstar feeling pressured enough to issue some statement about masculinity or some such crap, to having to justify it.
Uh... they were asked about it in (
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/07/grand-theft-auto-dan-houser) an interview and politely replied. No need to inject extra drama into it. SE, you're overreacting. And Deth, you're overreacting at SE's overreaction. Both of you please stop before this spirals out of control. :|
faetal on 11/9/2013 at 11:16
I'm not sure I get why every last game which is released now has to justify why it doesn't have a female playable character if it doesn't. It's like saying that no one is allowed to make fiction without essentially having to go through an equivalent of an equal opportunities employment process for its fictional characters. It's not like there were interviews for the roles and women who were equally qualified were turned down, it's just that they have written a story which is about 3 men. It's fatuous to start inserting female characters into every story just to allay claims of sexism.
Let's see how they deal with female characters in the game before wondering if the design is sexist.
june gloom on 11/9/2013 at 11:20
@Subjeff: Because people are going to fucking ask, and they have the fucking right to ask. GTA is one of the biggest franchises in gaming, I think I mentioned that. It's a big name in a field that, compared to other entertainment media, is actually pretty poor in its representations of women and minorities. Nevermind that women make up a full half of gamers now and blacks are a growing demographic too. Remember, we're at a point where the gaming industry has gotten very self-reflective about women and minorities, in large part due to those demographics becoming major forces in an industry that still largely ignores them. Did you not see how self-congratulatory the CoD people were when they finally got a female multiplayer model in? She doesn't even have a personality, she's just what some fucko in a living room'll be running around as. Yet the developers were acting like EQUALITY IS HERE! It's really not.
Rockstar is engaging with its fans and being honest about why their latest game doesn't have a female protagonist. This is called PR. They can't just ignore it. The industry's done that too long as it is.
I need to go to bed, I'll tackle faetal's post tomorrow evening.
faetal on 11/9/2013 at 11:31
In contrast - Saint's Row three lets you create a female character, complete with the ability to give them gigantic early Lara Croft-esque breasts and then have them run around topless wearing a thong. I'm not sure the inclusion of a female PC necessarily guarantees any kind of equality is being served. Sometimes it is catering to adolescents wanting to create a virtual sex doll.
Dethtoll, if it saves you time, I do understand the need to look at how women are portrayed in culture and that gaming is behind the curve in a lot of ways. I do hope I don't get treated like I don't get the problem, simply because I don't think the way you do to the letter. I'm just wary of any attitude which takes a "sexist until proven otherwise" stance rather than the far more reasonable opposite.
SubJeff on 11/9/2013 at 11:39
Yeah people absolutely have the right to ask. Rockstar have the right to just say "because we didn't". I agree with faetal which is why I think it's got a bit much now.
