Ziusudra on 27/3/2002 at 17:05
What I'm trying to say is that very few CRPGs have much role playing in them.
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RainstormThe difference imho is the story,if there's hardly a story that evolves and gameplay's strictly about fighting then it's a hack'n'slash.For me it comes down to what kind of decisions I have to make. If my biggest decision is which armor to wear or where to put a skill point, it's hack & slash. But if my decisions can actually affect the game environment, the game has true role playing elements.
Part of my point is that the game industry needs to rethink the labels they use. Part of the problem though, is that some games are so hard to classify. Another problem is that people have different ideas as to what CRPG means.
I had forgotten Fallout. I don't really care for the post apocalyptic setting. I could never get 'in' to the game.
The only games that have managed to draw me into a role are the Thief series and Deus Ex. Those are the games where I didn't feel like I was following a script, where I actually felt I was playing a role. Well, recent games anyway. Back in the day there were a few; Alternate Reality, Elite, Fairlight, Mars Saga, Hired Guns, etc. Who knows, maybe I'm just jaded now.
I'm sure that the first person perspective has something to do with it, but there are plenty of FP game that... well... suck. :p
Le Magot d'Oz on 27/3/2002 at 21:46
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Originally posted by Couderc What people are complaining? I think the only reason if anyone were to complain, though, is they keep calling it an open RPG etc etc play how you want to. But you don't get to make the character you want to. I DO NOT like using magic, but from the demo is seems apparent I must. It's a small thing... as for Daggerfall you could make the character you wanted, but the game was extremely boring. Since it lacked any sense of direction. but you
DON'T HAVE TO USE MAGIC in the whole Demo but for finish the tutorial ! and who cares ? a true professional like you ? ;)
What for using magic ? is it to light a torch on the wall or a fireplace, isn't it ? you could use a torch in your inventory for that purpose instead of the ignite spell ! (but I must admit you couldn't incinerate people without magic :cheeky: )
xman> you definitely have to play Return to the Cathedral which is Thief n°12 mission
Ziusudra> have you ever heard about Ultima Underworld ?
Pesht on 28/3/2002 at 02:43
You will have to use magic beyond lighting torches in the game, but as Raf said, nothing more than in a few places where you can easily find or buy scrolls.
[SPOILER]I know I saw that you have to use levitate to get over a spike pit at the end of the . . . crypts I think[/SPOILER]
Couderc on 28/3/2002 at 03:06
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I DO NOT like using magic, but from the demo is seems apparent I must.
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but you DON'T HAVE TO USE MAGIC in the whole Demo but for finish the tutorial
True...if I was only talking about the demo. :nono:
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You will have to use magic beyond lighting torches in the game, but as Raf said, nothing more than in a few places where you can easily find or buy scrolls.
Thank you, Pesht, for paying attention to posts :sly:
That's why I said,
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It's a small thing...
Le Magot, because I DO have to use magic. However it is not so horrible that I won't buy the game or anything like that. It is just the type of characters I like to play, non-magic users.
xman on 28/3/2002 at 10:37
:tsktsk:
You can complete the demo without using magic at all !!!
In the demo there are 4 spells:
- 1 ignite spell that is useless thanks to torches;
- 1 night-vision spell that is quite useless thanks to torches;
- 2 high-level attack spells which you can ignore if you want.
Indeed, the ignite spell might look useful but you bypass it by double-clicking on an unlit torch in your inventory and then on what you wanna ignite (a torch on a wall, a fireplace, etc...)
Couderc on 28/3/2002 at 22:23
XMAN
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You can complete the demo without using magic at all !!!
Yes, thank you for being the 10th person on the forums to point that out... Sorry if I appear to be annoyed but I am. The full version IS NOT the demo :grr:
xman on 29/3/2002 at 10:39
I'm a bit absent-minded sometimes. :erm:
Anyway, I knew several people already told you that, but I thought that I was the first one to say that double-clicking on the torch in your inventory worked.
Everybody seemed to hover a lit torch in the airs...
Yes. I thought THAT was new to the forum and therefore I decided to post anyway.
And... OK the demo is not the game and it's probable that you'll need magic.
SO WHAT ? Would you ignore one of the most creative ideas of the game ? :wot:
Why do you think they took time to design a beautiful and innovant magic system, uh ? :p
:cheeky:
Tels on 29/3/2002 at 11:18
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Anyway, I knew several people already told you that, but I thought that I was the first one to say that double-clicking on the torch in your inventory worked.
Couldn't get that to work after I did it once. But you can also drop a lit torch (right-click it, then drag it from the left space)into the world, then double-click it, then click onto the torch at the wall. Unsure if this works with fireplaces, but should.
Rainstorm on 1/4/2002 at 23:57
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Originally posted by Ziusudra What I'm trying to say is that very few CRPGs have much role playing in them.For me it comes down to what kind of decisions I have to make. If my biggest decision is which armor to wear or where to put a skill point, it's hack & slash. But if my decisions can actually affect the game environment, the game has true role playing elements.Well...it of course depends on what you mean with the importance of distributing skill points...
The freedom to distribute them to my liking and thereby changing the charasteristics of the PC is what I'd say is needed in CRPG's.
Like in Fallout if I spend most of it on speech I'll be able to talk better,lie better and so on.
It won't change the entire world,but it'll change the way I advance within it,so I'd be talking and lying my way through people instead of shooting them and so on...
But I'd guess it is hard for you to know when you couldn't get into the game. :)
I'm really not in any way a CRPG fan (pretty much a HC FPS'er) but Fallout managed to suck me into the genre due to its freedom.(which it unfortunately so far is pretty alone in having)
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Part of my point is that the game industry needs to rethink the labels they use. Part of the problem though, is that some games are so hard to classify. Another problem is that people have different ideas as to what CRPG means.
The only games that have managed to draw me into a role are the Thief series and Deus Ex. Those are the games where I didn't feel like I was following a script, where I actually felt I was playing a role. Well, recent games anyway. Back in the day there were a few; Alternate Reality, Elite, Fairlight, Mars Saga, Hired Guns, etc. Who knows, maybe I'm just jaded now. Yep,like I wrote the CRPG genre is pretty open compared to most others...
Part of the problem imho is that it seems that to be called a CRPG you need something D&D in it and that's char creation and XP...
If hack'n'slash for instance was more of a complete genre and linear "interactive novels" another they could make the definitions a bit better.(Diablo,IWD,DS in the first and PS:T and BG in the second.
But it is a jungle as it is,Gothic for instance is branded a action RPG where I'd brand it an action adventure with RPG elements.
Ziusudra on 2/4/2002 at 05:10
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RainstormWell...it of course depends on what you mean with the importance of distributing skill points...
The freedom to distribute them to my liking and thereby changing the charasteristics of the PC is what I'd say is needed in CRPG's.
Like in Fallout if I spend most of it on speech I'll be able to talk better,lie better and so on.
It won't change the entire world,but it'll change the way I advance within it,so I'd be talking and lying my way through people instead of shooting them and so on...I'd like to see a game where all this stuff is automatic, the more I use a skill/spell the better I get at it. And there would be places to learn new skills or spells. But I guess the only way that'll happen is if I get off my butt and code it myself...
[Edit]Oops, left out the /quote. :p
