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Couderc on 26/3/2002 at 03:37

(www.gamitopia.com/previews/games/a/arxfatpc/)

Nice to see the comment at the end to. Although Thief wasn't an RPG per se, it definately put you in the shoes of a character and totally sucked you in. Everyone seems to think Baldur's Gate revitalized RPG's, but most of those people think that as long as the game takes you 200hours to finish, it's an RPG.

Go ARX, ooop ooop.

:sly:

Calagari on 26/3/2002 at 12:50

Or any of the other games that company produced. Not that I thought they weren't good games because I did think they were good. I didn't like the perspective the game played from. Everyone looked so tiny. The game play was good as was the sound. The game was so big all you did was run back and forth trying to get the right clues in the correct order. I much prefer the perspective Arx Fatalis takes. Everything looks more normal and real to me.

Just one persons opinion.

xman on 26/3/2002 at 13:31

I see many people here just loving Thief...
Well... I've played Thief II and I found it quite boring...
In Thief, everybody is any enemy. I'd like to chat with people, like in a real RPG.
What's the point in hiding all the time ? Would you like to play a clandestine-refugee-with-no-papers simulator ?
Well, I'll stop my provocative blasphemy here as it's totally off topic. :)
Anyway, that's not because I don't love Thief that I don't like it. I just wanted to balance the too much positive opinions about it. :p

twisty on 26/3/2002 at 14:00

Great review Couderc. Well found.

Ziusudra on 26/3/2002 at 14:40

Quote:

Couderc
Although Thief wasn't an RPG per se, it definately put you in the shoes of a character and totally sucked you in.

What the hell is an RPG, then?

Quote:

Everyone seems to think Baldur's Gate revitalized RPG's, but most of those people think that as long as the game takes you 200hours to finish, it's an RPG.

IMO, games like Diablo and Baldur's Gate are hack & slashers with RPG elements. And all the decisions about the role you play were either made when you picked the character or when the character was designed. Assigning skill and attribute points is not role playing.

I don't think dungeon crawlers are RPGs either though. I mean, I love Arx, but I wouldn't call it an RPG. Actually, I can't think of any computer game that I would call a true RPG. But, on the other hand, I'm not sure a true computer RPG would be much fun.

Quote:

xman
In Thief, everybody is any enemy. I'd like to chat with people, like in a real RPG.

Saying everyone is your enemy is exaggerating. There are points in the game where you have to interact with people.

Quote:

What's the point in hiding all the time?

You're kidding, right? You play a thief for fsck's sake.

It's OK that you feel that way. And it's OK that you express that opinion, but it was pretty far off topic. :D

Le Magot d'Oz on 26/3/2002 at 18:11

Quote:

Originally posted by xman
Well... I've played Thief II and I found it quite boring...
In Thief, everybody is any enemy. I'd like to chat with people, like in a real RPG.
What's the point in hiding all the time ? Would you like to play a clandestine-refugee-with-no-papers simulator ?

well... Thief is not intended to be an RPG (and only some gamers make the confusion) (contrary to those "supposed to be RPG") : it's a linear action game based on 15 linear missions build on negative gameplay aspect : original isn't it ?

you could love Thief and love RPG (like UW, U7...) as well as you could love Zelda and an immersive RPG : it's 2 different games with different gameplay that's all !

I think a lot of people are complaining as they wanted Arx to be the first real Thief based RPG...
it will be an open story based RPG not a new Daggerfall you shall no be lost in the immensity...

xman on 26/3/2002 at 19:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Ziusudra
Saying everyone is your enemy is exaggerating. There are points in the game where you have to interact with people.

You are certainly right. I probably said that because I got bored too early to reach these points.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ziusudra
You're kidding, right? You play a thief for fsck's sake.

Actually... yes. :joke:
Well... not completely but at least a little...

Quote:

Originally posted by Ziusudra
It's OK that you feel that way. And it's OK that you express that opinion, but it was pretty far off topic. :D

That's why I won't add anything else to this thread. :)

Couderc on 26/3/2002 at 21:12

Quote:

What the hell is an RPG, then?

I was merely saying that Thief was not called an RPG by the developers. They considered it a first person sneaker. But as far as I am concerned it is more of an RPG than a game like BG, which the developers called an RPG. In Thief you actually took on a role and you didn't play the part of a fantasy courier, find item x, take item x to npc y...

As for :nono:

Quote:

What's the point in hiding all the time ?

No comment... :weird: HAHAHAHAHAHHA :D You know... playing a thief was kinda the point.

Quote:

I think a lot of people are complaining as they wanted Arx to be the first real Thief based RPG... it will be an open story based RPG not a new Daggerfall you shall no be lost in the immensity...

What people are complaining? I think the only reason if anyone were to complain, though, is they keep calling it an open RPG etc etc play how you want to. But you don't get to make the character you want to. I DO NOT like using magic, but from the demo is seems apparent I must. It's a small thing... as for Daggerfall you could make the character you wanted, but the game was extremely boring. Since it lacked any sense of direction.

Rainstorm on 26/3/2002 at 23:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Ziusudra
What the hell is an RPG, then?IMO, games like Diablo and Baldur's Gate are hack & slashers with RPG elements. And all the decisions about the role you play were either made when you picked the character or when the character was designed. Assigning skill and attribute points is not role playing.

Well...TBH I never played BG,but I don't think it's a hack'n'slash...
Diablo I didn't play either,but that's a definite hack'n'slash.
The difference imho is the story,if there's hardly a story that evolves and gameplay's strictly about fighting then it's a hack'n'slash.

Quote:
I don't think dungeon crawlers are RPGs either though. I mean, I love Arx, but I wouldn't call it an RPG. Actually, I can't think of any computer game that I would call a true RPG. But, on the other hand, I'm not sure a true computer RPG would be much fun.

The term should be CRPG not RPG...and AFAIK Fallout's the closest you can come so far with a CRPG in making it a RPG.(very open char creation,people react differently depending on your stats,your sex and so on,you are pretty free to solve it as you please,brute force or talking...three or four ways to beat the endboss)
Reason a term is used is so people interested in a genre can easier find other similar games...like FPS,RTS and so on...
But the CRPG genre is the widest,ranging from pure combat like Diablo to linear story based like PS:T to D&D worlds like BG to post apocalyptic like Fallout....
It's just to accept it and look at it for what it is,a label to make it easier for you to find the games in a catalogue... :)

addink on 27/3/2002 at 10:34
I always thought that within an RPG you're supposed to be able to shape the character you're playing... And that the different choices you make while shaping/defining your character, are supposed to have an influence on the gameplay...

While writing this I'm trying to think of a game that doesn't implement this using Experience Points... :erg:

Maybe SShock2 with the cybernetic modules which could be earned/found...