Aja on 20/9/2022 at 21:48
Thief 4 wasn't bad because they didn't follow fan feedback, though. It was a poorly-managed project from the start, with (
https://www.pcgamesn.com/rise-of-the-tomb-raider/rhianna-pratchett-interview-part-2) constant project lead turnover throughout its development. Apparently every time they brought a new lead in, the vision for the game changed and existing work was scrapped, and that is pretty obvious from the end result, which has great singular qualities but doesn't form a coherent whole.
heywood on 21/9/2022 at 00:56
On the other hand, the main guys were there the whole time:
Stephane Roy, producer
Steven Gallagher, narrative director
Nicolas Cantin, game director
Marc Benoit, lead gameplay designer
As far as I can recall, the only thing they took on board from the community was getting rid of rewards for killing and the combat QTEs, and that happened very late.
But I agree it was a management failure. If it was a well-managed game, they would have known their market and stayed focused on it, rather than struggling over creative direction.
Starker on 21/9/2022 at 02:30
Some of the reactions and explanations of the Thief 2014 devs were genuinely baffling to me. Like the defence of contextual controls for jumping -- I remember the lead level designer saying that they restricted the player's ability to jump because they thought it would be too immersion breaking if the player was able to jump everywhere. Meanwhile, the game had things like 3rd person climbing sequences and it even took control of the camera away from the player in order to show you something, both of which I found way more jarring than, say, being able to jump over obstacles and bad terrain and traps.
Sulphur on 21/9/2022 at 07:16
A more likely reason is that unrestricted jumping broke some of their systems or level design in various places, and they went with the quickest solution one could think of instead of reinventing things.
nicked on 21/9/2022 at 14:52
I can't remember who said it, but there was a great quote I'm paraphrasing - something like "You should listen to feedback that tells you what's wrong, and ignore feedback that tells you how to fix it."
If people knew what they wanted, there would be no need to employ designers.
EvaUnit02 on 23/9/2022 at 21:15
Quote Posted by Starker
it is at least a little funny to hear complaints about the game looking unfinished.
The this 2019 pre-alpha footage looks much better than finished Saints Row 2022.
EvaUnit02 on 23/9/2022 at 21:30
Quote Posted by Sulphur
The situation is a bit more nuanced than that. Gamers as a group aren't a monolithic population with strong, unified opinions -- unless it's the vocal minority of incel dumbfucks responsible for things like death threats and review bombing because of moves towards inclusivity or different art styles*. Developers would do well to ignore shitheels of that ilk, and we have a great case in point with the OP here.
Ad hominem rather than engaging in actual tackling of points as usual.
The "bigot trolls are review bombing and sending death threats" is a known marketing move in Hollywood to deflect actual criticism, by gaslighting and strawmanning. Why aren't we seeing this narrative in the press for House of the Dragon, despite the likes of raceswapped Velaryons? Because it's actually well written in both plotting and characters.
Anarchic Fox on 4/10/2022 at 23:05
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
Ad hominem rather than engaging in actual tackling of points as usual.
The "bigot trolls are review bombing and sending death threats" is a known marketing move in Hollywood to deflect actual criticism, by gaslighting and strawmanning. Why aren't we seeing this narrative in the press for House of the Dragon, despite the likes of raceswapped Velaryons? Because it's actually well written in both plotting and characters.
I think that if you put the effort into an engaged, well-reasoned discussion on the views you usually insert parenthetically, you would find a couple of people here willing to engage you in return. (Probably not me, as I have low stamina when it comes to argumentation.)
EvaUnit02 on 5/10/2022 at 16:38
Quote Posted by Anarchic Fox
I think that if you put the effort into an engaged, well-reasoned discussion on the views you usually insert parenthetically, you would find a couple of people here willing to engage you in return. (Probably not me, as I have low stamina when it comes to argumentation.)
Already did so here.
(
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149305&p=2489437&viewfull=1#post2489437)
Anarchic Fox on 6/10/2022 at 02:35
Hmm. I should back up my own words. I don't know enough about Rockstar to comment on that thread, but I'll speak up sometime when I see something objectionable and have the energy to argue.