Good sound card for vocal work

bikerdude on 15/9/2008 at 21:36

Evening

As I seem to be doing more and more sound work for thief I have started looking at what my options are etc.

I already have an ok Microphone ((http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=37392) Stereo Condensor mic) from which i get quite reasonable results when used with audacity - but the output from this mic and every other mic I have tried is too quiet. If I continue to use this mic I would like to get a dedicated sound card with a proper mic input. Or could I use said mic with an "(http://www.soundblaster.com//images/corporate/artwork/hires_Drive.jpg) xfi i/o drive" provide the much need boost in analogue mic gain..?

your average pc sound card is designed to work with cheap crap condenser mics(cheap £5 things from pcworld) so when you want to use a semi-descent mic the output of said mic isnt loud enough and needs to be pre-amplified. And as its been mentioned further in the thread, the mic level is already at max and adding gain via the windows control panel is NOT and option as this just adds NOISE.

I found this card, that fits the budget but would require a new mic - (http://www.dv247.com/invt/47504/product.htm?gdftrk=gdfV2356_a_7c416_a_7c1181_a_7c47504) ESI Maya 44 PCI

or

I go the (http://www.musiconmypc.co.uk/samson-c01u-recording-podcasting-pak-p-314.html) pod cast route - now I should mention I have tested a Samson C01U USB mic and found the output far to quiet (in fact no louder or better sounding than my £20 maplins mic)

what are your thoughts..

biker

37637598 on 15/9/2008 at 22:13

Biker biker biker, I've been through many-o-sound cards, and honestly you don't need to spend anything on a sound card as long as it has a mic input, and isn't giving you any noise (which most don't).

The reason is, if you're amking sounds for thief, and thief only accepts, say, 44,100, 16 bit audio, then as long as your sound card supports recording in 16 bit, and your audacity will save files in 44,100 (which it will), then you already have all the sound card you'll need for this project. Anything more and you're just paying for features you probably don't need, and won't be able to use. The quality of your recording is all in the microphone you use. I currently have a $200.00 soundblaster X-fi with dedicated mic, line, midi, and other inputs, and I STILL use my built-in motherboard sound card for recording because it has a less noisy line-input. Instead of considering a better card, consider a better microphone. If you can't afford a better microphone, you can always mix your vocal tracks to sound better. i use only free plug-ins for my vocal tracks and with my really good quality mic, and cheap sound card, I'm getting as good of sound quality as the voice actors of thief did.

well... Close enough to where you can't tell a difference anyway; The point is, as long as you're not getting noise out of your sound card, and it supports the format you need, you're golden;)

If you really DO want a better soundcard anyway though, for better quality audio playback, I suggest NOT using sound blaster if you're gonna do a lot of audio recording... And I also would steer you away from any USB audio interfaces... They tend to degrade the quality and add noise. Are you using a pre-amp or mixer in line with the microphone? If not, using one can do GREAT things to the quality and volume of your audio recording.

I would even suggest getting a firewire sound card, which is mostly just for audio recording, but they do an mazing job, and are very easy to set up. A little bit costly though. Take a look at this article:

(http://www.pcmus.com/Best-Audio-Recording-Card.htm)

And now for my 2 suggestions:

Firewire Interface for $279USD
(http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Edirol-FA66-6X6-FireWire-Audio-Interface?sku=705375&src=3SOSWXXB)

Audio card for 99.99EU
(http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/E-mu-1212M-V2-PCI-Card/6ZJ)

and here's a great site to look through for tips on a sound card, or any PC componant:

(http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/soundcard_tips.html)

Hope that helps!

bikerdude on 15/9/2008 at 22:31

Quote Posted by 37637598

I've been through many-o-sound cards, and honestly you don't need to spend anything on a sound card as long as it has a mic input, and isn't giving you any noise.

Instead of considering a better card, consider a better microphone. If you can't afford a better microphone.

Ok the MAIN problem that prompted me to post this thread was because every dynamic mic for £20-75 I have tried, while producing a good sound are STILL far to QUIET - and its the quietness thats the biggest problem for me.

So either I hunt around for a good yet cost effect mic preamp? or look at getting a pci sound card with a built in mic preamp - and my budget for such would be no more than £50-75.

biker

update - I found this info after reading your links
- (http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/articles/shure/msc.php)
- (http://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/computer_microphone.php)

dj_ivocha on 15/9/2008 at 23:09

You haven't forgotten to activate the +20dB boost in your sound card's mixer, have you?

Or if the quality is good enough, why not just normalize the recording in audacity?

Muzman on 15/9/2008 at 23:10

Are you sure you've got your rec level set properly? I mean, it seems obvious but it often hard to find or confusingly labelled depending on the drivers etc.
Mic-ins are generally pretty quiet or crapilly boosted though, lets face it. Bit surprised those cheapo mics are up the job volume wise though. They're usually built to pump through any old noise for the less discriminating tastes out there.
Otherwise a mic pre-amp might be good but they are usually for people who have the mics to go along with it, ie someone spending two grand on a microphone wont mind and will even probably enjoy spending 500 on a decent pre amp, so they don't make cheap ones for anyone else.
Some sort of external interface like this might provide a good intermediate point
(http://www.roland.com/products/en/UA-1EX/)

Digital recording units are an even better option but the good ones are still a bit much for someone not terribly hard core, and the cheap ones are just for note taking dictaphone stuff and sound meh.

Oh yeah. This kind of thing is ideal for cutting out the middle man, as it were. Probably a bit pricey though.
(http://www.rodemic.com/microphone.php?product=Podcaster)

37637598 on 16/9/2008 at 03:27

That's a good idea, to check the volume of your mic input... It may be set too low. You can try going to Control Panel>>Sounds and Audio Devices>>Then click the Audio Input tab and make sure the volume sliders are set all the way up, and if there are any 'boost' options, try using them.

You should have no problem getting a loud signal out of your mic. Are your audio levels coming anywhere near peaking in audacity? Mine usually come in the yellow, sometimes red, which isn't always a bad thing... If your audio levels are coming to the yellow when you record or playback in audacity, then it's a settings issue in audacity's 'mixdown' application. Check on those few things.

I didn't quite understand that it was a volume issue before. usually volume is an easy fix.

bikerdude on 16/9/2008 at 07:05

Quote Posted by dj_ivocha

You haven't forgotten to activate the +20dB boost in your sound card's mixer, have you?
Or if the quality is good enough, why not just normalize the recording in audacity?

your average pc sound card is designed to work with cheap crap condenser mics(cheap £5 things from pcworld) so when you want to use a semi-descent mic the output of said mic isnt loud enough and needs to be pre-amplified. And as its been mentioned further in the thread, the mic level is already at max and adding gain via the windows control panel is NOT and option as this just adds NOISE.

biker

37637598 on 16/9/2008 at 07:28

Gotcha. Well if you're looking for a good balence between power and low noise, a pre-amp would probably be a great fit, though there are other options. If you're CPU has a noisy fan, it may help to aim the microphone away from the computer or any flat walls that might reflect the noise back into the mic... You can also try un-muting the mic output from the sound panel and turn your speakers all the way up so you can hear the noise really well, then try moving the mic around and aiming it in different directions to find the best placement for the mic with the least ammount of noise. Don't forget to turn the volume of your speakers back down when you're done, before you end up blasting your ears out :joke:

Another common source foer noise in microphones is the circuitry of your house, especially if you have those flourescent tube lights with the big ass transformers in em'. If you do, try turning them off. Also the outlet your computer is plugged into might be causing ground noise, which can come up in your recording.

There's no reason your setup shouldn't be able to give you a decent quality recording... I used to record vocals on a $10.00 radio shack computer desktop mic, and they sounded actually really good! (for a cheap mic).

You an make your own pre-amp for really cheap using radio shack parts (if you know how to build circuits), otherwise you might check your local radio shack or cheap electronics shop. I know they're available in less expensive places than music stores.

Aja on 16/9/2008 at 08:44

Guys, the microphone he's using WILL NOT work with a regular mic input (which inclues the Edirol in Muzman's link). They NEED amplification. That being said, it's pretty hard to find a good preamp in that budget range, but if you're willing to spend a bit more you'll get good results from either of these:

(http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/AudioBuddy.html)

(http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop/flypage/product_id/4001)

I've heard recordings with the Audio Buddy and they sound great, and I own the UA-25 myself, so I can vouch for its quality. And if you ever use a laptop, the UA-25 provides better sound processing than any mobile sound-card I've ever seen. Great for field recording, or using software like Audacity or FL Studio while travelling.

bikerdude on 16/9/2008 at 08:59

Quote Posted by Aja

Ah thanks Aja, this is more like the info I was after....

But both of those pre-amps are out of my budget, Im aiming for around £50-80 mark. Hence why I started looking at a dedicated sound card with a built in pre amp. Its all about the amount of use Ill be putting in, as at most I do a few lines for thief once a month if that, so cant jusrify £100+ on a pre-amp. At this point Im considering building my own pre-amp as sugested.

biker