Tonamel on 10/9/2008 at 02:44
Definitely getting Fallout Tactics, but what to get with the coupon?
The_Raven on 10/9/2008 at 05:47
I don't know what GoG did to Fallout, but it runs like molasses now. I was afraid of this, but at least I'm not the only one who seems to be having this problem. In my case, however, the age of my computer is making the performance hit drag the game down to unplayable frame rates. Part of me wishes I had waited for a reply to my earlier query, at least it was only 5.99 USD.
EDIT: Never mind, I found a solution. After realizing that it wasn't a modified exe, because the same thing happens if you import the "original" version of the executable and run it, it became apparent that the .dll file that is included in the installation must be modifying the program at run-time. All you need to do is rename that file and things are back the way they were; however, this also brings back the black screen issue that is common on NT systems. It feels really good to finally have a legit copy of this game. The only hard part now is deciding on which game to redeem with my coupon: Descent 3 or Freespace 2?
Matthew on 10/9/2008 at 09:07
I'd heard Descent 3 wasn't quite as well-received as number 2, but Freespace 2 is awesome.
Shadowcat on 10/9/2008 at 09:53
Probably preaching to the converted, but Giants is a must-have. Great gameplay (save for the annoying jet-ski races, but they don't last too long), and frequently laugh-out-loud funny. If you don't own it, then you should definitely look into it.
Descent 3 is an odd one. Everything about it seems bigger and better than its predecessors, but I've just never gotten very far when playing it. Maybe the relative simplicity of the earlier games was part of the appeal? I've never quite been able to explain why I don't like it a bit more than I actually do.
The_Raven on 10/9/2008 at 12:53
I've actually played both before, I guess I'm in the minority in that I actually preferred the above ground landscapes to the constant mines of the previous games. On that note, I actually prefer Freespace 1 as a game to its sequel; however, Freespace 2's large community support and the FSSCP make it a must have.
Hemebond on 10/9/2008 at 14:55
Yakoob, I was being facetious. I guess I hid it a little too well.
Quote Posted by Yakoob
But in the Dos days, the win32 API simply didn't exist - so how could have the devs prepared for that?
The Win32 API has been around since Windows 95. Many of these games were released for Windows 95 and higher so by your theory of blameless devs they should run fine. As for the DOS games, there shouldn't be any problem running them in a DOS emulator already, but there will be (salt the fries!).
Quote Posted by Yakoob
But the OS can (and, with win95 and 98 it did). It's really the burden of the OS to allow older products to run on it, not the other way around.
And those games that have used those APIs properly should run without a problem. Trouble is many times they haven't used those APIs properly. This is the reason the Windows source code is full of application-specific work-arounds and hacks. Why the (
http://www.winehq.org/) Wine bug-tracker is full of bugs for games that fail to do even basic things like reset cursor position or grab the mouse. Many games, even now, require you to be an administrator just to run them.
There are plenty of libraries out there that abstract the platform away for you and yet the majority of commercial game developers
still write this stuff from scratch each time.
Take Unreal Tournament for example (and every game that uses that engine); I have to use a script to tax my CPU before running the game because it detects the current clock speed and runs using that. Stupid shit like that stopped being done over a decade ago. No IdTech3 based game (Quake 3 was released the same time as UT) suffers from that.
Quote Posted by The_Raven
the .dll file that is included in the installation must be modifying the program at run-time. All you need to do is rename that file and things are back the way they were; however, this also brings back the black screen issue that is common on NT systems.
Thank you for helping my point.
Sorry to rant in here but this stuff really annoys me and many commercial game developers need a kick in the face.
Yakoob on 10/9/2008 at 17:13
Quote Posted by Hemebond
The Win32 API has been around since Windows 95. Many of these games were released for Windows 95 and higher so by your theory of blameless devs they should run fine. As for the DOS games, there shouldn't be any problem running them in a DOS emulator already, but there will be (salt the fries!).
I was using win32 merely as an example, there is many more APIs you need to take care of to get the game running, which may have been creme of the crop 10 years ago but are completely obsolete today (audio and graphics spring to mind). Your second argument about DOS emulators further proves my point that it's not the devs responsibility to be forward-compatible.
Quote:
Trouble is many times they haven't used those APIs properly. This is the reason the Windows source code is full of application-specific work-arounds and hacks. Why the (
http://www.winehq.org/) Wine bug-tracker is full of bugs for games that fail to do even basic things like reset cursor position or grab the mouse. Many games, even now, require you to be an administrator just to run them.
Not to seem arrogant, but have you ever used any of those APIs in performance-critical applications (I see you have WebDev and technician in your profile, but that doesn't specify areas you worked in)? Can you really define a how to use them "properly?" Oftentimes there are a few ways to achieve the same effect - how do you know which one is "proper?" Often, the most "proper" way to do something is also the least efficient (which is a deal-breaker in performance-critical programs such as games). And sometimes the documentation really fucking blows, so it's all about trying random shit until something finally works (yes, I'm speaking from experience). And also consider it was ten years ago, when the APIs were less mature, much less documented and lacking huge communities to provide support.
Quote:
There are plenty of libraries out there that abstract the platform away for you and yet the majority of commercial game developers
still write this stuff from scratch each time.
Yes, and most of these libraries are actually pretty shitty, good-but-not-good-enough for game development, under GPL, non-cross-platform compatible or require devs to pay monies they simply don't have. And, again, there was even less of that ten years ago.
Yes, I agree it would be awesome if we could have standard game dev libraries for most rudimentary stuff, but it's been decades and there's still no single efficient, affordable and cross-platform compatible solution. Only recently are we seeing a change in this (ex: Havok), but it's still primary in the "blockbuster studio" price range.
Quote:
Take Unreal Tournament for example (and every game that uses that engine); I have to use a script to tax my CPU before running the game because it detects the current clock speed and runs using that. Stupid shit like that stopped being done over a decade ago. No IdTech3 based game (Quake 3 was released the same time as UT) suffers from that.Thank you for helping my point.
A strawman argument a bit. Sure it's broken today (and I experienced the very same bug myself), but when UT was released, it worked like a charm and ensured the game worded on variety of PCs. Like I said, the most efficient solution isn't necessarily the most logical or most "proper."
You may also be blaming all the companies who give new technology a try (like, say, 3DFX or PhysX). It enhances their games and paves way for the mainstream use of the new tech. And if the new tech catches on, hooray the devs are future proofing their games and bringing the best performance to me TODAY yay! but if it falls through, their games will eventually stop working and boo the devs are iditios who can't program a calculator, what the hell were they thinking!?
It's the exact same thing why some old games work out-of-the-box, and others flat-out don't. And it's not the Devs that need to be blamed.
Chimpy Chompy on 10/9/2008 at 17:54
Downloading Giants as i type this. :cool: Not sure what to get for my Free Interplay Game - I already own several of them.
Anyway hoping they convinced some more publishers to sign up. Especially Lucasarts.
The_Raven on 10/9/2008 at 18:02
Indeed, LucasArts and EA/Origin would bring a lot of great oldies to their catalogue.
NamelessPlayer on 10/9/2008 at 18:12
I just got my beta access key, and am rather impressed with the catalogue.
While I do own several of the games available there (the entire Descent series, Die by the Sword, Freespace + Silent Threat, the original Redneck Rampage), there are also several I don't (a copy of Die by the Sword that actually works on my new Vista-based system, Freespace 2, Giants, Hostile Waters, and both MDK titles).
I'm about to go on a shopping spree, especially with this buy-one-get-one-free thing going on. Here's my question, though-do you only ever get one free game code, or do you get one for each game you purchase individually? (You only get one code, and that's with your first purchase. I'm not complaining when I get at least one free game, though.)
(Oh, and I really, REALLY hope they get Baldur's Gate + Tales of the Sword Coast in their catalogue. I have the sequel and its expansion, but I won't touch those until I clear the first game. Same for Thief Gold; I have Thief II on a CGW DVD with Deus Ex, but won't touch it until I clear the first game.)
