DirkBogan on 18/6/2022 at 03:39
Judging by the comments here, I think a lot of the problems people have with Thieves' Guild are extrinsic to the map itself: it's horribly positioned in Thief Gold, that's undeniable. The story and difficulty don't mesh well, and it's intrusive to a first-time playthrough.
If taken as a standalone experience however, I think its gameplay and story are among the most compelling of any OM. But perhaps it isn't fair to treat it like a fan mission when it's part of a package.
Mandragora on 18/6/2022 at 11:39
The way i see it, main hook of Thief gameplay is conquering environment. Mentally mapping it.
That is the core element and hardest part. Everything else comes out of that.
Loot and switches, just to give you motivation to explore whole map and look at every pixel.
Guards, just to break your timing and force you to think differently or redirect you.
And it all blend so well with narrative, characters and world we all love to skulk around in.
But once you conquer the map mentally, when you know the environment, the game is easy.
I mean, it is easy game even before that.
Just let yourself go, drift, explore, lose yourself in it, enjoy.
That is why i don't understand all those rationalizations and crying about difficulty curves,story pacing and stuff. Especially if you are replaying the game for X-th time.
It is massive level, for sure. But i think they (TLG) got some early feedback, and they realized that early thief fans love complexity. I did. Still do. And they decided to go in that direction.
From this time distance, and with all those interviews and analysis of the game, you can clearly see their thinking behind some decisions.
And please, don't be such a whiner and try not to blame others for everything. Sometimes it is you.
Play the game and enjoy it for what it is. It is a 25 years old game. Cherish it. Learn from it, either it's good moves or mistakes.
You can also simply say 'i don't prefer that level'. It is ok.
Or maybe you don't like Thief gameplay any more. It is ok, also.
I love Thief universe so i am easy customer. I love The Dark Project, i love Gold, i love The Metal Age. I love The Deadly Shadows.
But gameplay, clunkiness and that reliable familiar feeling/physics of Dark Engine is pure joy :)
zajazd on 18/6/2022 at 17:27
I have been playing fan missions on and off since mid 2000s, I have tried at least 99% of them all and Guild is the worst one, OM or fan, it is common knowledge and if you don't see it then you are special in some way.
Here are more of the same sentiments :cheeky:
(
https://steamcommunity.com/app/211600/discussions/0/2280456883440978580/)
[..] it shouldnt even had to be in the final/gold version, it was so out of place, a FANMADE MAP USING MY ASSCHEEKS WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER DESIGNED [..]
I would use it as my sig if mods would allow it :cheeky:
marbleman on 18/6/2022 at 17:32
It's a common opinion. Not common knowledge.
Mandragora on 18/6/2022 at 18:26
Quote Posted by zajazd
..insignificant noise..
someone there?.. nothing making noise now.. must've been rats.. mumble mumble.. when they gonna bring me my dinner?..
downwinder on 18/6/2022 at 19:08
there is 100% chance there is more then 1 fan mission that is worse then the om thieves guild mission
zajazd on 18/6/2022 at 19:21
Possibly no.
Purgator on 18/6/2022 at 20:51
Using your asscheeks as inspiration or do they have to be physically involved in the design process, like sitting on the keyboard and seeing what happens?
Overlord Nexus on 18/6/2022 at 22:54
I always suspected Thieves' Guild was cobbled together from at least three, probably four or five, separate unfinished levels and haphazardly copied and pasted into a whole.
The Shroud on 20/6/2022 at 00:48
Quote Posted by DirkBogan
The woman you're referring to is Sara Verrilli, who also made
The Sword -- usually cited as by far the best T1 OM.
I just happened to hear something interesting in this interview with Tim Stellmach, Laura Baldwin, and Sara Verrilli: (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Okvwf-95k)
Jump to 28:26, where Sara begins talking about her work on Thief's levels. She says, "I actually came on as a designer, really, after Laura actually, was already working on the project, cause I had seen almost most of the way we were... Were we in beta when I came on or almost? I don't think we were quite in beta.
But all of the levels had been built, and so what I actually was was, much like Laura, I was a jack of all trades, fill in the blanks designer. And I took a couple of levels that had been built by artists, but who weren't going to populate and script them, and I ended up populating and scripting them, and setting up the traps..."
Tim: "So... Thief Gold and Thief II were your substantial roles..."
Sara: "Yeah... Yeah... Yeah."
Matthew Weise: "So not designing the space itself, but populating the space that they had built..."
Sara: "No I did not, no really physical design other than, oh, this needs to be tweaked here, here's the... fixing small bugs, but..."
She goes on to elaborate on her role in gameplay and level design. It's a good interview, worth listening to. This makes me wonder if it was really Tom Leonard who actually
built a lot of the levels themselves, since he is listed as handling "core architecture."
