Tomi on 23/11/2015 at 21:53
Quote Posted by GMDX Dev
GMDX fixes this, you can survive a pistol headshot from full health even on the highest difficulties.
In a game like Deus Ex (that isn't really an action FPS) I wouldn't call that a "fix".
heywood on 24/11/2015 at 16:37
I agree if we're talking about Realistic difficulty, which is supposed to encourage you to play tactically and not get into gun battles in the open where you stand a fair chance of getting shot in the head.
At Hard or lower difficulty, the fix makes more sense. If you're trying to play a combat-focused play style, and you know you are going to get randomly and unpredictably insta-killed in 1 out of every 5 (or whatever) enemy encounters, you're just going to quick save a lot and reload when you die. The 'fix' gives you the option of trying to play without reloads, which is actually more challenging.
GMDX Dev on 25/11/2015 at 08:53
Quote Posted by Tomi
In a game like Deus Ex (that isn't really an action FPS) I wouldn't call that a "fix".
Did you not read that the only weapons that have this capability vanilla are the pistol and the sniper rifle? Are you trying to argue from a perspective of realism/simulation, because that does not have any basis since we can
survive multiple assault rifle and shotgun pellets to the head even on realistic. Do you know why we can? Gameplay balance. And this is why we can now survive a pistol shot too.
And to also repeat: the pistol in the hands of the enemy is only encountered in the first 1/3rd of the game, after that it is very rare to see one, and is instead replaced by the assault gun and shotguns which do not have the ability to instakill headshot. It very much is a fix. A fix of consistency and difficulty curve, and on top of that makes firefights more enjoyable.
And yes, Deus Ex is in-part an action FPS/Sneaker/RPG, this is the core of the experience in fact. Simulation doesn't override gameplay and never has in a Looking Glass game, it is merely the basis for it, otherwise we'd bleed out/be rendered immobile from a single torso shot too and that'd be it.
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I agree if we're talking about Realistic difficulty, which is supposed to encourage you to play tactically and not get into gun battles in the open where you stand a fair chance of getting shot in the head.
No. It is poor design to start the player off with nothing versus hordes of instakill RNG enemies, only to later in the game become a god from the machine with all these augmentations, skills, inventory items etc that faces
NO instakill RNG enemies (aside from the rare sniper). In the vanilla game, the RNG instakill bullshit compensated for the AI's considerable incompetence and is no longer needed.
In GMDX tactical play is enforced and deepened via various other means, including much more competent AI. I'll post (
http://genericname112.wix.com/gmdx#!artificial-intelligence/c8ao) the AI list once more and I encourage you to check it out.
heywood on 25/11/2015 at 12:33
I don't know about you, but I've been "instakilled" more times in the vanilla game by assault rifles than pistols. Yes, it may take more than one bullet, but the rate of fire is enough that you can be killed in an instant on Realistic. I'm pretty sure I've been instakilled by shotguns too on the rare occasion where an enemy caught me by surprise at point blank range.
Anyway, starting off the game weak is part of the core experience of Deus Ex. I learned pretty early in my first playthrough that I wasn't going to get through the game engaging enemies in the open and circle strafing them FPS-style. And the pistol-wielding NSF were not my biggest concern. The guys with crossbows are what I really feared.
Later in the game you do face more difficult enemies, but I agree that there is a declining difficulty curve, especially with certain overpowered augs and items.
GMDX Dev on 25/11/2015 at 20:25
Quote Posted by heywood
I don't know about you, but I've been "instakilled" more times in the vanilla game by assault rifles than pistols. Yes, it may take more than one bullet, but the rate of fire is enough that you can be killed in an instant on Realistic. I'm pretty sure I've been instakilled by shotguns too on the rare occasion where an enemy caught me by surprise at point blank range.
For an assault rifle to kill you "instantly", you'd need four of its five round burst shots to all hit the head. Bear in mind we are talking from full health. The chances are slim. At close range they could put you down pretty quickly with a couple of bursts, but other than that it was a lot more forgiving than facing off against, say, 30+ terrorists on the first level the majority of which have pistols that could put you down in one hit heavily influenced by RNG, all the while you have little tools, augs or skills.
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Anyway, starting off the game weak is part of the core experience of Deus Ex.
And this is not changed.
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And the pistol-wielding NSF were not my biggest concern. The guys with crossbows are what I really feared.
This probably shouldn't be the case, as you have plenty of time to react accordingly to the ongoing poison damage, plus crossbow darts are projectiles (and can therefore be dodged) rather than tracefire instahit. NPCs with crossbows are generally much more accurate than pistol wielders though, which is another issue of consistency.
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Later in the game you do face more difficult enemies, but I agree that there is a declining difficulty curve, especially with certain overpowered augs and items.
GMDX intends to at least steady it, but you attain so much power that it is a difficult thing to do. Much more capable AI with extra focus on late game enemies is primarily how its done.
One thing about me and GMDX: I'm
very confident in my design ability. This is intended to be Deus Ex pushed to its potential. Once you have played GMDX, let me know if you think I've succeeded in that, and we'll discuss the specifics further.
I know what Deus Ex is, I've played it coming up 20 times at this point, and have played (and loved) all the LGS classics. To me LGS still are the pinnacle of role-playing/player agency-based game design.
Pyrian on 25/11/2015 at 23:22
Meh; way too much attention to something that barely happens. Fast ranged deaths in Deus Ex are rare. In both cases (pistol and assault rifle) the instant or virtually instant death is overwhelmingly more likely to happen due to a failed stealth attempt. If you hit someone with a baton (usually because you aimed for the head like a sensible person) and they don't go down, they turn around and you die.
If you're running around Liberty Island with a bunch of pistol NSF chasing you, they're almost certainly going to run out of ammo (or take out your legs or chest) before they get a head shot in. If you stand still or get really close, it's another matter. I've played WAY more than 20 games of Deus Ex, and I didn't even know a pistol could one-shot you at range. I tested it and it's true, but I had to stand still. :p
The question for pistol/head damage should be, what do you want to happen if someone gets detected at point blank? That's what it's mostly affecting.
GMDX Dev on 26/11/2015 at 07:27
Quote Posted by Pyrian
Meh; way too much attention to something that barely happens. Fast ranged deaths in Deus Ex are rare. In both cases (pistol and assault rifle) the instant or virtually instant death is overwhelmingly more likely to happen due to a failed stealth attempt. If you hit someone with a baton (usually because you aimed for the head like a sensible person) and they don't go down, they turn around and you die.
If you're running around Liberty Island with a bunch of pistol NSF chasing you, they're almost certainly going to run out of ammo (or take out your legs or chest) before they get a head shot in. If you stand still or get really close, it's another matter. I've played WAY more than 20 games of Deus Ex, and I didn't even know a pistol could one-shot you at range. I tested it and it's true, but I had to stand still. :p
The question for pistol/head damage should be, what do you want to happen if someone gets detected at point blank? That's what it's mostly affecting.
It sounds like you haven't given the combat playstyle a try. Pistol instakill headshots on realistic are pretty common at close to medium ranges if you're always engaging them loudly. And yes, they even rarely get a lucky shot at long ranges.
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I tested it and it's true, but I had to stand still.
Makes no difference. It's tracefire/hittrace. It performs a calculation based on a number of variables (none being player or NPC movement speed) and traces from the NPC/weapon to the calculated hit location, which is all done pretty much instantly. If the computer says you're gonna suffer a headshot before the NPC has technically even fired there's nothing you can do about it at that point.
I just remembered that torso pistol shots actually one hit killed you too, but no other weapon (except the rifle or explosives of course).
14 * 2 * 4 = 112
That's pistol base damage * headshot or torso multiplier * realistic difficulty multiplier.
Whereas 1 shotgun or assault gun bullet was 3 * 2 * 4 = 24, so all five bullets (shotguns fired five pellets, and assault gun had five round burst) had to hit the same body part to instakill which are very, very slim odds, especially in the case of shotgun users as they had such poor accuracy vanilla and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Of course assault gun users were full auto so the follow up shots ensured death, but only at very close range and by this point you possibly have ballistic vests, ballistic protection aug, and more powerful+accurate weaponry yourself to put them down faster. With the assault gun or shotguns at medium to long ranges there was no chance of instadeath. This was not true of pistols and it was definitely an issue, especially when facing large groups of pistol users early in the game and then rarely seeing an enemy with a pistol again later on.
GMDX Dev on 27/11/2015 at 01:27
Part 6: Level Design & Graphics:
[video=youtube;bpzXECyTQJ0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpzXECyTQJ0[/video]
Dev_Anj on 27/11/2015 at 01:36
Looking great! I especially like how you stated good reasons for overhauling Deus Ex's level design and adding graphical effects, instead of merely insisting that it's improved from the original.
GMDX Dev on 27/11/2015 at 02:17
Quote Posted by Dev_Anj
Looking great! I especially like how you stated good reasons for overhauling Deus Ex's level design and adding graphical effects, instead of merely insisting that it's improved from the original.
It was mandatory to do so as far as I am concerned. The mod release trailer (if there is to be one. Probably not because I don't have the video editing skills nor the time) will be less forthcoming with such info.