Sneak on 18/12/2021 at 23:09
Thought I would say something about the comments above about The Dark Mod and candles. I have been playing a bunch of Dark Mod lately like some of you. My experience has been that when I take a lit candle out of a gold candle holder and set it down still lit it stays lit. But when I take the candle holder, the candle goes out. Every time! Even if I move the candle across the room. Am sure we are playing different missions but I haven't yet had a candle go out when I remove it and re-light when I take the gold. If some one would post a mission this happens in I would like to check it out.
If it matters I am playing Dark Mod version 2.09.
As far as it being a bug, is possible. I can't remember who posted it above but you nailed it. There is a hard and fast Rule about lights in Supreme. So if the light goes out it is a Bust!
Sneak on 18/12/2021 at 23:32
Klatremus,
You asked me a question about 2 months ago on the subject of Lock Picking and some maybe being unnecessary in Supreme Ghost. That went right by and I never replied to it. Actually it is not an easy quick answer either, though I do have an answer. Let me get my thoughts together and I will lay it out for you.
klatremus on 19/12/2021 at 05:44
Quote Posted by Sneak
Health Potions are NOT Chemistry. Chemistry enhances your abilities. (
I can see it coming. Is Holy Water Chemistry. And is Holy Water a Potion? ;)
Your take on this is interesting, because I think ever ghoster active on the forums right now would definitely say health potions would break Supreme and render a regular Ghost run a chemical run. Simply because the rule is flat out mentioning potions and not limiting it to specific kinds of potions. Since we haven't had the original makers (as in you and Peter Smith) around at a reliable rate, we have basically worked with the principle: 'The rules are the rules are the rules.' Sometimes we have sought to clarify them, but never added or removed something that would possibly render old reports obsolete or, worse still, useless. Saying healing potions do not make it a chemical run would be changing the rule compared to what we have solidly interpreted it as for years.
Also, holy water vials was in 2017 added to the rules as NOT being considered potions by the community, mainly because vials are not ingested but instead applied to your arrows, so there is no chemical alteration to Garrett at all. That's why they're called holy water
vials and not holy water potions. Check out Supreme rule #5 for this wording.
Quote Posted by Sneak
Am sure we are playing different missions but I haven't yet had a candle go out when I remove it and re-light when I take the gold.
The only mission I've experienced this in is The Heart of Lone Salvation (which is a fantastic must play mission btw), but with a small correction. The candle doesn't go out automatically when removing it, but if I pick up the candle part and then press use to put it out, then set it down somewhere, if I then take the holder the candle relights. It happened to 6 different candlesticks in that mission. I treated those all as Supreme busts and skipped them, even though I could limit the candle to being put out only for a second. But all other missions I've played the candle stays lit when I take the holder, which makes it ok for Supreme.
By the way, did you see that we have added the "official" ghost rules for The Dark Mod? Check them out in the (
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523) rules thread.
Galaer on 19/12/2021 at 11:34
@Sneak: About potions I agree with most of what you said. Except healing is actually ability. That's why it should also trigger chemical state. Normally when you get hurt in mission, you will only get healed to full health at the beginning of next mission. Thanks to healing potions and healing food you can enhance this ability to heal yourself during current mission. Just like in real life, sometimes just resting will heal you from disease in 1 month, but if you take medicine it will take you only 1-2 weeks.
Cigam on 19/12/2021 at 17:35
Quote Posted by Sneak
When a Health Potion is mentioned in the Rules, suffice it to mean anything that restores or adds to your your health. That is the logic of it.
Happy to see that one of the authors agrees with the belief that it is the effects that matter, not the package it comes in. (So those breath-potion esque leafs should be treated the same as breath potions).
Just wondering though, I don't think the rules mention either health potions or health restoration at all. So while I am happy for the clarification that any health-granting consumable comes under the umbrella of "health potion", I am a bit unsure as to whether the umbrella is allowed or disallowed for supreme? (or does or doesn't count as a chemical success for ghost?)
On another note, isn't it always the way when writing a "constitution" that the authors just cannot future-proof them from debates over interpretations. Maybe 20 years from now, another group of fans will be arguing over the meanings of some of the current modern clarifications :)
Sneak on 19/12/2021 at 19:26
WOW! Love the Passion. I feel kinda Proud ! As I said somewhere in a post, am truly happy this is still on going.
I have played The Heart of Lone Salvation many times. Even back when it came out. Just replayed it recently. No doubt it is a Great one ! The whole Thieves Den series is good. So I just reloaded it for another look at the candles. Klatremus I see what you are talking about. I never thought to remove a candle and put it out and then take the candle holder. But those two items do seem to be linked. I found two candles in gold holders in one room, one lit and the other one not. The candle that was not lit, when I took the holder away the candle fell off and lit up. If I took the unlit candle out and carried it over to the other candle and lit it from that candle and then took it back and set it down by the holder it came from, then took that holder, the candle would go out. If I did the same thing and took that candle back to its holder and snuffed it out myself, when I took the candle holder it would re-light.
No doubt weird business with those candles
On from Candles.
It's a Game, only a Game! Any references to Real Life..............
I have seen the Official Rules page and the clarifications for Dark Mod. I have had that Rules page up as a saved Tab in my browser for quite some time to make an easy reference while catching up on the thread. Lot of stuff here.
I do have items on my mind. As I touched on above, it seems that some wording in the rules was not clearly detailed for future players even though at the time it was clear to us. But for now I am just going to post this again with a question added and see what comes back. Will see if I can glean anything.
Health Potions are NOT Chemistry. Chemistry enhances your abilities.
Why do you need to heal yourself?
Cigam on 19/12/2021 at 19:41
Sneak, it may be impossible to avoid damage in some circumstances. Then you might need to heal to prevent death if another impossible-to-avoid-damage situation was to later occur.
People have, for example, mentioned a FM were you begin poisoned, and lose health throughout if I remember correctly.
Grandmauden on 19/12/2021 at 21:31
A while back, I did a Supreme Ghost run of "Finals at the Academy." Partway through the mission, you lose a chunk of health as a scripted consequence of following one of the story objectives, which I figured was acceptable and not a bust (similar to the alarm in "Undercover").
In that same mission, you can trigger an optional objective to find a medallion that passively heals you. At the time, I saw no problem with triggering and completing this objective because I didn't interpret the healing medallion to fall under the "no potion effects" rule. Should I have come to a different conclusion here?
Sneak on 19/12/2021 at 21:51
Quote Posted by Grandmauden
A while back, I did a Supreme Ghost run of "Finals at the Academy." Partway through the mission, you lose a chunk of health as a scripted consequence of following one of the story objectives, which I figured was acceptable and not a bust (similar to the alarm in "Undercover").
In that same mission, you can trigger an optional objective to find a medallion that passively heals you. At the time, I saw no problem with triggering and completing this objective because I didn't interpret the healing medallion to fall under the "no potion effects" rule. Should I have come to a different conclusion here?
If the loss of health was for sure a script there is no Bust. And if you have an Objective (even optional) to get that item that heals you that is also not a Bust. You have to complete all Objectives and the Objectives outweigh the Rules.
Grandmauden on 19/12/2021 at 23:03
Yeah, but it's also possible to avoid the trigger that makes the optional objective appear in the first place. So I'm mainly curious as to whether it would've been more in the spirit of the rules to avoid making the objective appear and thus avoid unnecessary healing, if the rules were intended to discourage healing from any source.
