klatremus on 25/11/2021 at 20:23
Yes I will include download links to both Dragofer's and kcghost's stealth tool. The latter I will list as highly recommended since it updates live and becomes an inventory item. I will include direct download links to my website and highly encourage players to use these.
klatremus on 28/11/2021 at 04:00
Ok, I have edited the (
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523) Official Ghost Rules to include the Dark Mod addendum. Please look it over for glaring mistakes and post here if you see any. If none are spotted, I will direct the post to be reclosed. The only TDM rule I have added that wasn't in marbleman's original draft is Supreme rule #6a regarding light sources.
Cigam on 28/11/2021 at 15:52
Just two things. Wondering if the date here is accurate? I thought the arrows clarification happened more recently? But could be confusing it with something else.
Quote:
Edited Oct 26, 2014 by Peter Smith and Klatremus. Clarified rule 2 to account for objectives that are not necessary. Clarified rule 6, now 6a, 6b, and 6c, to allow for use of arrows to solve puzzles, as opposed to dousing torches and deadening sound, which are still not allowed.
And the other, regarding this part:
Quote:
It is up to each individual ghoster to skip loot pieces that they know will cause these responses.
I guess I have the problem that to me this reads as if there is an expectation or onus on the player to skip such loot. As in "It is up to you to study hard for the exam. I would have prefered:
Quote:
It is up to each individual ghoster
whether or not they skip loot pieces that they already know will cause these responses.
Because that makes it sound like it's a free choice with no sense of saying that a player ought to skip such loot.
I think that it should be clear that it is a free choice, to avoid punishing the players who are more knowledgeable.
klatremus on 28/11/2021 at 18:31
The rule from 2014 was edited by Peter Smith, where we allowed moss arrows to be used for puzzles. They were disallowed outright before that, which wasn't the original intent. He split rule 6 into a, b and c.
I agree with your new wording of the loot response rule. I will edit to make it clearer.
klatremus on 28/11/2021 at 23:51
A dark mod observation I've made recently is that if you pick open a door and a guard later uses that door as part of his patrol route, the door gets relocked. This is probably because the guard has been assigned a "key" to that door, even though there might not be an in-mission key for that door in existence, and part of his scripted mechanism is to 1 unlock door, 2 open door, 3 close door, and finally 4 lock door. He would skip step 1 since the door is already unlocked, but still carry out the other 3. This is great for Supreme, since I always worry about leaving doors unlocked if I can avoid it. Well, now I can safely choose to pick open doors used by enemies, knowing they will be relocked automatically.
Another thing I noticed, where I wanted to hear a community opinion:
Most candlesticks will have the wax part fall to the table still lit up when taking the base and you can just reposition the candle part on the table, while others you can take off the wax part separately and then grab the base. But others again are automatically set to extinguish once taken. For the latter, if you first extinguish the candle and then take the base, the candle suddenly relights! I tested this a bit and even if you remove the wax part first and move it far away from the base, when you take the base the candle extinguishes even if it's in a different room. Or if you first put it out it will light up again in the other room. The most Supreme-like way I've found to get this loot is to extinguish the candle by frobbing, then as quickly as possible take the base, at which the candle relights again. The light is off for maybe 0.2 seconds. Is this still a Supreme bust? It just seems like a malfunctioning script to me, since the game is supposed to let you choose to extinguish them or not.
marbleman on 29/11/2021 at 01:12
That does sound like a bug and a supreme bust. You are removing a light source, even if it gets relit right away.
klatremus on 29/11/2021 at 03:17
I think I agree. Bugs don't excuse busts, but still annoying.
Galaer on 29/11/2021 at 22:12
Sorry, klatremus, but I think it's fair to bring discussion about food, healing fruits not activating chemical ghost as they aren't potions to the rest of community. I always thought that eating those will make chemical ghost, but klatremus says differently. Here is his quote about this matter.
"I get the point you're trying to make about the healing fruits. I would argue in my video as well that the only wording in the rules is that "potions" aren't allowed. After all, you can heal yourself by eating regular food also, not just healing fruits, so is it logical that the Supreme rules won't allow Garrett to eat food? Hardly. I think the potion rule was mostly implemented to prevent invisibility and speed potions since they can avoid detection, and breath and slow-fall potions because they can prevent loss of damage. Sure, healing potions would also be covered by the rule, but nothing is said about other types of healing. I would argue if there was a leaf you could eat that would give you more breath underwater, that would be fine also. It's not a potion.
Not returning a fruit if you eat it to survive is not a bust to rule #7. The first sentence even says "that can be put back". If you eat it, obviously it can't be put back. Also the last sentence of #7 says "Some items stay permanently in inventory or disappear from inventory so they cannot be put back. These are excused." That is to me quite clear. If so, then using a key that disappears when used would also be a bust, because you can't put it back."
What do you think?
klatremus on 30/11/2021 at 05:08
I was thinking about bringing this up in this discussion also, so thank you Galaer. I stand by everything you quoted me on. I don't think anything edible is breaking the potion rule. That's basically what is comes down to.
The case is in Hallucinations, where you lose health as a scripted gameplay event, so that's not a bust. You're not allowed to drink healing potions to avoid dying for Supreme, so I argue you can eat magic healing apples to replenish health and not bust Supreme, or render it a Chemical Success for regular Ghost.
marbleman on 30/11/2021 at 13:58
I agree with klatremus's interpretation.