Galaer on 16/9/2021 at 17:59
Quote Posted by klatremus
It just means picking locks is not a bust to Supreme. Sneak wrote the rule that way to argue it's not property damage to the lock. Maybe someone claimed that back in the day.
I'm asking, because regular ghost doesn't have that sentence in property damage rule.
Cigam on 17/9/2021 at 04:04
Galaer, perhaps after the creation of Ghost but before the creation of Supreme, someone tried to apply the real-world logic that lockpicking would introduce small degradations to the lock, and so is property damage. So this flavour text was added into Supreme to essentially say that such real-world logic can be ignored as There is no game mechanic associated with this degradation?
Perhaps too, the Supreme authors didn't want to alter what had been written for older modes, they just wanted to write the new Supreme rules? Hence why that text doesn't appear in the earlier modes. And why the rule about walkthroughs is still in them despite having been removed for Supreme?
On another note, if you pickpocket a guard's key I have noticed before now that this can alter the guard's patrol route. In Cragscleft for example, instead of unlocking and going through a door, without a key the Hammer will now turn around and go off somewhere else. This is not a ghost issue?
Sneak on 22/9/2021 at 23:27
Quote Posted by Galaer
Can someone explain to me this supreme ghost rule: "Lock picking that creates infinitesimal degradation of the lock mechanism is OK"? It's the first time I hear that picking the lock can also damage it.
Basically as noted by Klatremus, it means lock picking is not property damage. We used to have a lot of discussions and semi arguments back at the beginnings of Ghost. Some were kind of intense believe me. Just ask Peter Smith. During a bit of a discussion including property damage, someone tossed lock picking out there saying something like metal to metal scrapping away micro-fine pieces; honestly I can't remember the exact words. But it was one of those things like "is this a serious argument" or "Is someone just yanking the boards chain ?" Clayman, who was the board Curmudgeon, had some fun with that one. This discussion was after Ghost Mode started but before we authored Supreme Ghost. That is why it isn't in the Ghost Mode Rules. The words "infinitesimal degradation" are Claymans words and fit Perfectly. And I certainly couldn't see any reason for a rule in Supreme to require players to carry a dust pan and wisk broom to sweep up those micro -fine metal dust molecules. There is the history of that one. So pick all the locks you want, it isn't Property Damage. :cool:
klatremus on 23/9/2021 at 20:20
Thanks for the explanation Sneak! I really wish I could read those old discussions. Sadly, they got lost in the Square-Enix debacle I'm quite sure.
Something I meant to ask you Sneak: Since relocking of doors is required for Supreme, why was avoiding unnecessary lockpicks never required also? I mean, if you pick open a door and then cant relock it, isnt that just as bad? I mention this many times in my videos and notoriously try to minimize the number of locks picked, especially if they can't be relocked.
klatremus on 9/11/2021 at 01:09
Dragofer pointed me to a different version of the stealth statistics tool made by kcghost (
https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20245-view-stealth-score-during-gameplay/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-443437) here. Instead of having a document you have to read, it changes the loot inventory item to also show the stealth statistics. It's more minimalistic which is one reason why I like it better, but it also updates the stealth score live, as you are spotted which is plain awesome. Check it out and decide for yourselves, but I'm definitely gonna change to that for upcoming TDM missions.
Galaer on 9/11/2021 at 15:36
Can't check this file. Looks like it's unavailable for some reason.
Galaer on 9/11/2021 at 18:14
Oh, I get it, I need to have account on TDM forum first probably. Oh, well, if ever my motivation to play this game recover, I will check it out.
klatremus on 25/11/2021 at 19:44
So after playing quite a bit of The Dark Mod lately, I think it's time to update the official ghost rules. I have no objection to marbleman's suggested changes from (
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487&p=2475221&viewfull=1#post2475221) this post. Those were the result of extensive discussion anyway, so I assume they're agreed upon by most. I will also add a rule in the Supreme mode to disallow the moving of lights in TDM, but allow blocking of lights using for example doors or crates. Unless there are any major objections, I will do this in the next few days.
marbleman on 25/11/2021 at 20:18
Maybe indicate that the player can use the stealth statistics tool of their choice. :)