Cigam on 2/9/2021 at 17:39
New Ghosting question. In T2x m7 there is one section of the map where the rooms are protected by some kind of magic force. If this protective guardian force thing spots you it'll fire projectiles at you. It is I think a supernatural equivalent of a watcher / turret combo.
Now you can obtain a ward item which stops this guardian force. I can't remember if it just disappears altogether, or is still there but no longer cares about your presence.
So, does traversing this area with the ward in your inventory count as either the disabling of a security system, or the disabling of a trap?
Galaer on 2/9/2021 at 18:26
Is detonating mines without alerting anyone and without any damage property allowed for ghost? Mines in mission I play can't be disarmed, it's not a part of puzzle or any objective.
Cigam on 2/9/2021 at 23:01
Galaer, if the mines were armed then wouldn't that make them a trap or security?
klatremus on 3/9/2021 at 00:15
I think mines would be considered traps, so those are allowed to be disarmed for all modes, but cant be blown up for Supreme. Not sure if it's considered property damage really. If so, it would also be disallowed for regular Ghost.
Cigam: As for T2X m7, taking the ward I think would be ok for all modes, but its unnecessary. You can Supreme the whole mausoleum without it. Plus it requires a moss arrow to be used, which leaves evidence and isnt very ghost-like. Check my report where I describe this in more detail.
Cigam on 3/9/2021 at 17:24
klatremus, I have already seen the video, and it was remembering that report which prompted my query. In it you mention that moss arrows are allowed to solve puzzles, but then mention that getting the ward isn't necessary as the "cameras" can be avoided anyway. sorry if I got the wrong impression here but I got the sense that you were suggesting that someone could get the ward and make the magic cameras disappear without any technical busts, you were just choosing not to. Which got me curious about the whole 'but wouldn't that then be the disabling of a security system, even if one implemented by spooks rather than people' question?
Another thought prompted by the video. Later on you mention that blackjacking Cavador and dealing him that accompanying damage is excused because it is heavily implied by the instruction to kidnap him. A thought I had is that granted you have to render him unconscious to abduct him, but is it necessary to damage him? In other words, wouldn't a gas arrow be the thing here, as - I believe - they do not damage health?
Sorry if this is a bit nit-picky, just thoughts I've had prompted by the video discussions.
marbleman on 3/9/2021 at 17:31
Cavador is immune to gas, did you forget?
Cigam on 3/9/2021 at 18:09
marbleman, oh of course [a forehead-slap emoticon goes here].
Still, even if Cavador can't be spared some subsequent bruising, I think there is the general question since other FMs also have kidnaps. Should the ghost kidnapper favour a gas arrow or mine KO (assuming they or the mission level has one) over a thwack.
It might not come up very often, but there are definately other missions that have them, and where the target isn't gas-immune.
marbleman on 3/9/2021 at 22:10
Got a new TDM question: does picking up and moving lit candles to a different location bust Supreme? Technically, you're not removing any light sources this way.
klatremus on 4/9/2021 at 06:46
Well, technically you are removing it from where it was first located. The rule doesn't specify what "removing" it really means, because you can't move lights around in Thief. The principle behind the rule for Supreme is someone can see the light go out, so if you move it from one room to the next, isn't that basically the same thing? I wouldn't say this follows the spirit of the Supreme rule. I'd say its ok if you take a candlestick that has a wax candle in it, then you put the wax part down where the candlestick was, but to move the light to a different spot doesn't feel right.
Very good question though. This might be worth specifying in the Dark Mod amendment.
Galaer on 4/9/2021 at 07:51
Quote Posted by klatremus
because you can't move lights around in Thief.
You are incorrect on this one. In FMs sometimes you can grab and move lanterns. Since game gives you possibility of moving light source, then I think it should be allowed. But later you must return it to the original spot. Plus it's not free. If light from candle is a problem of being spotted, then walking with source of light is even bigger problem of being spotted.