Galaer on 20/1/2021 at 21:07
To be honest, this situation reminds me the most of something else that happens very rarely in FMs. Sometimes due to author's overlook, it's possible to carry conscious enemy. Normally it's not possible. This way you can move enemy in less problematic place. Is is a ghost bust? Well, I don't count it as one if I will manage to avoid alerts from him. But using this bug could count as exploit probably. So far, I didn't need to use this bug though.
Starker on 20/1/2021 at 21:10
Well, exploits like nudging are grudgingly allowed after all. And same goes for removing guards from the game by trapping them, I presume. Feels kind of cheap, though.
marbleman on 20/1/2021 at 21:24
Alcazar should be Supremeable. Can't think of any situation that could bust this mode.
Galaer on 20/1/2021 at 22:18
What about tracking statue? It can see you even if you are in full shadow. I think it's possible to escape fast enough without being seen in light, but if it gets alive after grabbing book and if it can see you in shadow, then shouldn't it count as being spot by it? In other words - ghost bust? What do you think?
marbleman on 20/1/2021 at 22:25
I just played through this mission, and the staute didn't see me in the shadow. It does seem to have a proximity trigger of some sort though. If you approach it too closely, even from behind, it will alert and turn around. I also find it impossible to gauge its alerts, I don't think it gives any. It just has constant idle chatter.
klatremus on 21/1/2021 at 06:55
Question: In T2X mission 4, there are two coin stacks on a gambling table that if stolen trigger a script where the patron comes over and says "Hey, someone must have stolen that!". As long as you are not visible when you take it, nothing else happens. Nobody attacks you and he doesn't give a settling remark. Scripts have been mentioned before as being ok, but here it ends in what I interpret to be an alert, though it isn't because of being detected. I'm thinking that those responses you would logically hear all the time anyway, once people finally realize all their valuables have disappeared. In my head I compare it to the alert in Into the Odd where the two ladies on the top floor of the marketmaster's alert to the golden egg being gone. However, that is different, because it is not scripted. They only alert once they see it is gone, as in when they happen to be at that location in their patrol route. In the T2X case, it doesn't matter where the patron is located when you take the coin stacks, he immediately stops whatever he is doing, walks straight over to the table and says the line, then continues whatever he was doing before. Initially I counted it as a Supreme bust, but ok for Ghost, because I saw it as a first alert, but I never felt 100% sure about it.
Thoughts folks?
Vae on 21/1/2021 at 07:26
The content of a triggered script does not constitute a First Alert. Because you were not detected, and there wasn't any settling remark or change of behavior after the fact to the AI in question, there isn't any First Alert. Therefore, no bust to Ghost or Supreme.
Galaer on 21/1/2021 at 08:39
@klatremus: So, I think that changing AI route by taking loot may not be considered supreme bust, but the fact that it has voiced first alert towards loss of money, I would still considered this a supreme bust. Luckily you can skip this loot.
marbleman on 21/1/2021 at 10:10
While it's not a first alert, it's still a remark from that guy, so it'd be safer to skip it for Supreme.
klatremus on 21/1/2021 at 16:03
@Vae: Supreme rule #4 says "All AI and devices must remain in their normal state and not react to anything you do or initiate in the game." That goes beyond the same rule also saying first alerts aren't allowed. To me that means if AI give any other indication besides normal first alerts that means they know you've been there, it's a bust. I don't think it's a Ghost bust however.