Renault on 10/10/2013 at 23:20

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OK, it's pretty late here and I'm on vacation and have been drinking heavily, however, here's what I saw in the demo:

-It's nice to see a new mission besides mofoing Heart of the Lion/Northcrest Manor.
-Contextual actions - you can lean (left stick) and peek (X) change cover (x), lockpick (x)
-Also contextual - you can cut out paintings (kind of lame) and unscrew vent openings and unscrew Plaques (also lame)
-From the circle weapon menu, there's a broadhead, there's a bunch of arrows that aren't IDed, have to assume that one is broadhead, another is blunt, but what' the third? Razor tipped?
-There's something between water arrows and bottles on the same menu, looks like a SPLAT, what is that?
-I see we have another very non subtle explosive crate drop - how stealthy - of course no one reacts :rolleyes:
-"Open Journal" text, indicates readables
-Reference to "Grandmauden Ave" from Life of the Party
-Document that says "Moira Release Letter" reference to TDS
-Loot picked up: "Ashtray (Fair)" - what's the "Fair?"
-Reference to "Crippled Burrick Tavern" from Ambush
-While in Focus, you can "Set Pin" - probably means you can cheat and just automatically bypass a pin
-Several references to Collectibles - I guess we're turning Thief into Super Mario Bros

Everything seems very - linear - and also very gamey - collectibles, lots of action animations, very obvious and hand holdy on-screen prompts - can't say I'm too pleased about what I'm seeing here. Everything seems very obvious and the game appears far too easy.

Beleg Cúthalion on 11/10/2013 at 07:21

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Stealth doesn't come secondary. If something does, it's the player's freedom to do clever stuff on his own instead of pushing the act-stealthily buttons which makes Garrett to the fancy stuff automatically. But even then most features encourage stealth even when they simplify it (e.g. swoop, peeping, take-downs). IMHO it would be inexact not to make that distinction and honestly I think a lot of new elements are just transformed old ones. A take-down from above is only simpler than a blackjack hit while airborne as in the first games, you wouldn't call it less stealthy back then. Noisemaker arrow and thrown junk isn't much different from blunt arrows and a few junk items stored in your inventory. Sound and noise was hard to determine, but it's not gone. You cannot just swoop the whole mission, even if I agree that it e.g. takes away the tension of slowly following an AI through the light just to pick-pocket or blackjack him. I tried to play this game as I was used with the old titles and aside fro the things mentioned I was allowed that and rewarded by the game because it still worked. Actually alerting guards was much more punishing now than beforehand where I could just run away.They said Focus doesn't have to be used, I cannot remember anyone saying that it can be turned off.Free saving works, the game just says "reload last check-point" or something which mislead me, too, when I first saw it. However, I haven't checked it with the small side quests. Maybe there is a special mechanic there, as suggested in the article.Why is that lame? Would simply frobbing it be more sophisticated? By the way, I never found a painting to cut out, only paintings with hidden switches. One could argue that these look a bit obviously set up, but on the other hand any lock is. Both frame searching and lock-picking seemed clever mini games to me, actual improvements.Might be a fire arrow. Aside from those you mentioned, there should only be the water arrow and rope arrow left. I haven't even seen the dry-ice arrow since the first announcements, maybe this one was changed after fan criticism, too.Readables exist, unfortunately they're plain menu text and get auto-saved to your journal with no possibility to frob them again. That was a bit disappointing, feeling less organic and natural.I never used that, but I guess you can simply see how far the pin has to be pushed before going to the next one. Without focus (and with the game pad) is really was a matter of patience and feeling.Or Assassin's Creed, as I read, where you can do stuff like this in the second part at least.The prompts are a bit annoying but actually not overly more hand-holding than the original highlight (take-downs excluded, they are too easy by triggering complex actions with one button). I didn't feel any linearity that exceeded those of the original games (I'm actually surprised that the devs openly stated several times that the story arc itself will be as linear as in the previous titles, only the missions will be non-linear, at least in theory). You probably cannot judge (non-) linearity by looking at an action-oriented trailer or someone else's demo.

Beleg Cúthalion on 11/10/2013 at 08:55

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Yes, I think they also write it in some English article, but on the two occasions where I witnessed a presentation live, I believe they only said you didn't have to use it. Well, who knows, I admit I didn't ask further once it was clear Focus was optional.

Shinrazero on 12/10/2013 at 19:23

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Have all the trailers been a couple minutes? There are some lengthy ones out now that are much longer than several minutes. Comparing trailers from the previous games should not matter, consistency where there is none. Thi4f isn't really vying for fans of the previous series, if they were, they'd be showcasing some of the finer points of Thief's great stealth gameplay.



Well we know we can't simply jump to make a ruckus. The points you've mentioned have not really been utilized in any of the trailers. Were noisemakers confirmed? We have not seem him tap the wall with his blackjack or anything to create a distraction. Have blunt arrows been shown to distract a guard? The only distractions I've seen are the crate dropping (which did not alert the guards). I am not sure but I thought in another video he threw a bottle between two guards and they did nothing, I could be wrong on this. The larger point is we have seen little of Garrett working from the shadows. At least not in a manner we are accustomed to.



This is an area I am interested in greatly because I fear swoop will eliminate the audio cues the player could potentially make to alert nearby guards. These questions have been asked before and those who played said that it was hard to hear audio, even with headphones. Other circumstances prevented them for noticing these details.



Look dude, I'm not trying to rain on you or anyone else who is optimistic about the game. I hope that at minimum this game will get people interested in its predecessors. Even so, it seems like you are burying your head in the sand, refusing to acknowledge the fact that every trailer we have seen has more emphasis on the action bits. This game has had a huge focus its action! I'm not saying stealth isn't there but that it seems secondary.

All the videos have been showcasing the takedowns and focus based gameplay. We've seen some of the elements of plan, observe, execute but the complete picture on stealth is not entirely clear, especially when it comes to sound being in the mix. Correct me if I missed it but I have not seen one emergent scenario played out in a trailer. IMHO that should have more prominence! Also, do the guards bleed? Will we be cleaning up blood puddles with water arrows? We haven't seen the AI do anything remarkable or even comparable to the previous games. I find this largely concerning, especially since they are nearing the mass production phase.

SneakyJack on 12/10/2013 at 20:30

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Posted this in a different thread but yeah, what the hell?

http://i.imgur.com/lWV0j4k.jpg