Muzman on 19/8/2008 at 10:02
This probably deserves a thread of its own by now I figure.
Apparently none of the films about Iraq and the "war on terror" are doing very well. Perhaps the populace are all Iraqed out these days, which makes sense. Still this is the invason via The Wire and everyone with some nous ought to be up for that.
I haven't read the book, but it's reportedly very close to its source, although being visual and The Wire style at that you are dropped right into the middle of things with the many recon marines training in Kuwait on the eve of the action. I figure that's fair warning for any would be viewers. Still, looking around the traps there's the usual whining from people who don't like it because they can't follow all the dialogue and can't name all the characters by the end of the first episode. I really don't know how these people live. They must never go outside their family circle and require a 20min intro and distinctive hokey character traits from everyone they meet. The Wire got the same thing from time to time. Don't people just shut up and watch? Seriously, this attitude is the reason most things in TV and the movies is shit. If you feel like this, its your fault. Every Exec producer the world over who demands rewrites and character redraws and dialogue that spells out everyone's inner thoughts and feelings like real humans never do; teary eyed obvious underscoring, huge acting, terrible voice overs, endless reiteration of motivations, pointless conflict for the sake of having an emotional peak between each ad break. It's all for you. Congratulations.
That inflamatory business said, the two captains of the Alpha and Bravo recon squads are fucking twins and I couldn't tell them apart until episode three. One's a lot taller and does dumb shit more often, but that's about all there is to go on.
Anyway it's damn good so far and nicely complex. Mostly we spend time with the lead vehicle of the Bravo recon unit and the colourful characters within
It has a weird vibe though. It's comparable to Band of Brothers in that it follows these guys who are supposed to be the very tip of the spearhead, but they get jerked around and lost on a regular basis and seem to almost never be where the real action is. The show takes a very dim view of military command structures. I suppose most things do. But here it's somehow worse. In a lot of stories about older wars they usually portray command structures as confused but mostly competent; when there's pulling of rank and respecting of chain of command it's a discipline and folks often seem to see what's really going on in the ranks. eg in B.o.B. some of the NCOs revolt against their incompetent commander before they ship out. The Colonel/General whatever goes all out with how this is mutiny and its punishable by death, but he knows they're right and even thinks better of them for recognising it. But they get an earful of chain of command and everyone knows what's really going on and it had to be this way.
Generation Kill doesn't give that impression; The General's trying to get the President's attention, the Recon Colonel is trying to get the General's attention, his Captain's are trying to get his attention and they'll get commended for stopping the unit in a dangerous place because the radios are on the wrong channel and trying to call artillery down on a tree that's basically beside them. Anyone below them who speaks up is probably going to get an ass whooping about the grooming standard (there's one Staff Sargeant who appears to do nothing else). It's quite spooky internally competitive bravado all the way down the line.
I'm sure all wars like this are some sort of mess and the one's we like are dressed more heroicly years after the fact etc. I'm just saying, so far in the show (only up to ep 4, don't spoil me if you can) the US military is sort of a very heavily armed Enron, with all that entails, and I can't help but feel sorry for anyone at ground level who has anything to do with it; be they behind the gun or infront of it.
The show has amazing production values; I was expecting a whole lot of close shots and out of focus stuff so we couldn't see the rest of Nevada in the background or something. But nope they look like they're rolling through some foreign country in the middle east. Amazing day and night shooting and effects work. The shot when the lost unit hooks up with the rest of the force as it rolls down the highway; tanks, trucks, APCs the works, all the way to the horizon. Bit of a jaw dropper that one. I also like the "soundtrack" over the credits being ice cool radio chatter from some specific engagement. It's great to listen to a few times and figure out what's going on.
Anway, I won't blab on. Who else is watching?
Thirith on 19/8/2008 at 10:06
We rarely get HBO series on TV here, except for The Sopranos, Six Feet Under and Sex and the City, which is why I'll wait until Generation Kill is out on DVD. However, it does sound like exactly the sort of TV I like.
Scots Taffer on 19/8/2008 at 14:21
Can't read what you've written, but I have the first four episodes downloaded... I will watch very sooon.
demagogue on 19/8/2008 at 16:27
I read it ... you covered a lot of my impressions.
You're right that you know the characters first by their character sketch ... but I have to think that's intentional; that's how they know each other too: Generic brown race "hate the white man" guy (Latino, but will stand-in as Indian to make a point), fucking Captain America again, "speak English", liberal media, hick-psycho/whopper jr, pimpin' Ray who never shuts up ... The most drawn out character, aside from Ray, is the sargent ("vote Republican") ... he wants to be a classical, honorable warrior as much as possible, but knows he can't; or he has no illusions about the limits ("just stay away from the village of women & children" ... *blam* ... "goddammit...") ... And I like the contrast between him and the platoon commander always trying too hard to look intelligent in front of him.
I noticed the same thing you did about how they handled the command structure ... all of them trying to impress. It hammers the point that everything they're doing doesn't matter so much, but anyway we need to jump in there and do something soon or the whole war will pass us by; sort of a theme of the whole war actually.
I like that it's not preachy about the war ... things you could preach about just happen, and you just have these guys being their human selves around when they do. The actual storyteller is a very minor character who mostly stays out of the way. Gives you a much better view of what was going on and why ... personalities and motivations conspiring to lead to stupid things happening.
Here was a good review I read: (
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/arts/television/11kill.html)
BEAR on 19/8/2008 at 19:12
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
Can't read what you've written
Agreed, that was an impenetrable wall of text. Paragraph that biznatch.
heretic on 20/8/2008 at 00:36
Great show-
Best of all some of the actual Marines (Rudy and Kocher) are playing themselves, and others have been involved with the dialogue.
For those who don't know, the book caused quite a stir and resulted in disciplinary action for many involved, but is now on many recommended reading lists for CO's, including those with Marine Recon.
Scots Taffer on 20/8/2008 at 01:30
Quote Posted by BEAR
Agreed, that was an impenetrable wall of text. Paragraph that biznatch.
I did not mean that... I meant in case there were spoilers.
I've been interested in this show ever since I read an excerpt from the book of the same name.
Muzman on 20/8/2008 at 16:22
Quote Posted by heretic
Best of all some of the actual Marines (Rudy and Kocher) are playing themselves, and others have been involved with the dialogue.
Kocher appears to be playing another character, not that it matters. 'Fruity' Rudy Reyes is kinda hilarious though. When he first gets introduced... I mean he's a slightly swishy, (apparently) gay, extremely body proud, gentle souled guy who talks all pop spiritual and wants to live in San Fransisco,
in the marines. He's like something out of a post-Clinton era Predator/Aliens/Heartbreak Ridge knock off like
Doom:The Movie or something, not a naturalistic eye-opening show from the makers of
The Wire. It's like they said "No one is going to believe this guy is real. He has to play himself".