GBM, I need your help...

Renegen on 2/9/2006 at 02:14

So what IS marinating anyway? The recipee seems really long for just some pork, is the taste that much better? Why marinate it, what's the differences between cooking styles here?

Gingerbread Man on 2/9/2006 at 03:33

Brining, not marinating.

Brining is good because meat is flesh and flesh is cells and cells is permeable.

Three basic schools of thought: a) brining allows salt and whatever other flavourings into the cells of the meat, b) the higher concentration of salt in the brine draws some moisture out of the cells of the meat (thereby increasing the concentration of natural sodium etc inside the meat) or c) brining gets salty water in between the cells of the meat.

It doesn't matter which one is the case, the point is that a higher concentration of salt inside meatfood causes proteins to denature... When proteins denature, the go from tight little bundles to big floopy loose things, and then they get tangled around each other and make sort of molecular-level netting that traps moisture. Kinda like the difference between having a dozen balls of wool sitting in a bag or unwinding all that wool, then stuffing it in a bag.

However it works (I'm not a chemist, though I play one on television), the point is that the denatured protein ends up trapping a lot more moisture in the flesh, and the end result is juicier meat -- added bonus also being that meat with more moisture in it is a lot more forgiving of haphazard cooking methods, as it doesn't dry out as readily.

Marinades are a different story altogether. They work because of protein-digesting enzymes which break down connective tissues and end up reducing the meat's ability to hold moisture. You can end up with some pretty dry food that way.

Mostly, people seem to use marinades to impart extra flavour to meat. I personally think marinades (especially long-sit marinades) are a bit of a waste of time. They never seem to significantly tenderise anything, they can seriously ruin a good bit of meat, and if you're really that concerned about imparting extra flavour then you're probably better off either making a glaze or making a sauce.

And if the argument is that the particular cut of meat you've got isn't that tender and you don't want tough meat, then maybe it's time to think about using appropriate cooking methods instead of just frying everything... Even the stereotypically crap cuts of tougher beef will come up just beautifully if you cook them with a sensible method.

And the answer is yes, brining nearly all poultry, pork, and seafood vastly improves it. No need to bother brining game meats, beef, or things like duck etc... they're already quite tasty and good at retaining moisture. Plus you don't cook those as much, whereas pork, seafood, and poultry have higher minimum temperatures than red / game meats, and so they're more prone to drying out.

Basically, if it's very very lean meat, you will probably find an advantage in brining it. And I mean lean like pork or chicken lean, not just a lean cut of beef.

PigLick on 2/9/2006 at 08:11

Man, I love the cheaper cuts of beef and lamb, chuck steak and the like. Heaps of fatty bits and when you cook it right it just melts in your mouth.

Mr.Duck on 2/9/2006 at 19:40

God, all I need now is one -free- afternoon/evening to cook this sucker up...and 1st partials are just around the corner...*groans*

TBE on 2/9/2006 at 21:00

Okay, here's a twist to cooking your tenderloin.

Marinate it like GBM said. But don't cut into the meat. When you're ready to cook, get a nice frying pan pretty hot with some olive oil in there. Just enough oil to make the meat not stick to the pan. What you're going to do is, brown each side of the meat in the frying pan. This is the hard part, because you have to do the ends too. Each side will be brownish, and it should look like it's cooked from the outside. But we know that the meat inside is all red and not cooked yet.

So when each side is brown and a touch crispy, then is the time to slam it into the oven with that glaze that Geebum is telling you how to make. Trust me, try my way once, and GBM's way. My way keeps the juices inside the meat, because once you brown it on the outsides, it'll stay juicier. I like to cook my pork roasts in a potato and carrot mixture, and some of my own glaze. No sickos, not THAT glaze. I use worcestershire sauce, soy sauce, and a smidgeon of Mrs. Buttersworth. I shit you not!

Gingerbread Man on 2/9/2006 at 21:03

I could have sworn that I said sear it. All you've done is say "but don't slash it before searing" -- and that's fine and dandy, I just do that personally sometimes because it allows more of the yummy glaze to find a foothold on the surface of the meat.

And for God's sake I didn't (and virtually NEVER do) advocate marinating. Marinades and brines are nearly polar opposites.

(edit)
And hey guess what searing meat does not, in any way, "lock the juices in"

That's one of the most-repeated bits of bullshit on any cooking show you'd care to name (except Good Eats), and it simply is not true.

Scots Taffer on 3/9/2006 at 00:34

I disagree with you about the marinades though. My marinades for my fajitas and satay work excellently at providing an extra level of flavour. They don't define the meal but they are certainly a large component of it.

Gingerbread Man on 3/9/2006 at 00:41

Marinades have their place, and I do use them on occasion. Those occasions are becoming more and more infrequent, though. I guess I'm more interested in sauces these days.

What I complain about mostly is willy-nilly use of several-hour or overnight marinades. There certainly are recipes that benefit tremendously from a long and luscious marinade.

Anyway, what I'm getting all weird about is the arbitrary use of "marinating" when what I'm actually talking about is functionally opposite in a lot of ways.

I have ISSUES. I am NITPICKERMAN. I am becoming a horrible snob. :(

Mr.Duck on 3/9/2006 at 00:48

And yet your stile and flavor appeal to me.

So, carry on, little man, carry on. :cool:

Well, I seem to have gotten ahold of all of the ingredients (or look-alikes ;)).

Might just cook this baby tomorrow or monday...hrrmmm...

littlek on 3/9/2006 at 13:21

Sear or burn, marinade or brine, slash or not to slash....who cares! I just want Duckie to cook this beast and report on its yumminess. My culinary skills are not much beyond hamburger helper so I do enjoy a finely made meal - or hearing about it.