Gryzemuis on 1/2/2021 at 16:25
Quote Posted by Starker
in my opinion Democrats are a right-leaning centrist party with a significant progressive wing, whereas you claim they are a far right party not very different from the Republicans.
I've never said that. Not here, not anywhere. I've never said they are "not very different". I've even started to call the Republicans fascists.
But from a purely economic standpoint, from a theoretical standpoint, they are indeed not so different. In practice the Republicans are a lot worse, because they are hypocrites. Many are (semi) corrupt. But the result, if you ignore the excesses, is not that different. No limitations for Wallstreet. Invading other countries for economic gain. Support the Saudies. Support the oil-industry. Oppose unions. Support globalization. You see the differences, I see the similarities.
Biden has the presidency now. And congress and the house. Now is the time to see what Democrats really stand for. Let's talk again a year from now.
Gryzemuis on 1/2/2021 at 16:26
Fuck Jimmy Kimmel.
On a serious note. Options have (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expiration_(options)) expiration dates.
The wiki-page suggests that: "Typically, exchange-traded option contracts expire according to a
pre-determined calendar. For instance, for U.S. exchange-listed equity stock option contracts,
the expiration date is always the Saturday that follows the third Friday of the month".
Do any of you understand this in more detail? What are the expiration-dates for the GME options? I assume that until the last expiration-date of the last options-contract, people are gonna hold. I'm curious to know what that date is.
Pyrian on 2/2/2021 at 02:10
"I never said X! But, indeed X."
Starker on 2/2/2021 at 03:33
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
I've never said that. Not here, not anywhere. I've never said they are "not very different". I've even started to call the Republicans fascists.
But from a purely economic standpoint, from a theoretical standpoint, they are indeed not so different. In practice the Republicans are a lot worse, because they are hypocrites. Many are (semi) corrupt. But the result, if you ignore the excesses, is not that different. No limitations for Wallstreet. Invading other countries for economic gain. Support the Saudies. Support the oil-industry. Oppose unions. Support globalization. You see the differences, I see the similarities.
Biden has the presidency now. And congress and the house. Now is the time to see what Democrats really stand for. Let's talk again a year from now.
It's not that I see differences, it's that the differences are large enough in my opinion to not lump both parties together as pretty much equally conservative and equally capitalist.
If Democrats support there being no limitations on Wall Street, then why did they pass Dodd-Frank? You might argue that it's not enough, but it has been the subject of intense lobbying to repeal it and Republicans have tried to repeal it ever since. If the agenda of Republicans and Democrats is essentially the same, why did Republicans do their best to cripple the CFPB and have major rollbacks and revisions of Obama rules and regulations to protect consumers? If the Democrats are the ones against regulation, why do they keep passing environmental regulations and Republicans keep trying to slash them?
As for unions, I would argue that not only are the Democrats not opposing unions, they are actually paying too much attention to them, leaving the rest of the workers in the dust. All you could hear during the campaign was union this and union that. You can't walk five feet in US politics without hearing something about "good-paying union jobs". But the fact is that the unions are a part of a shrinking labour aristocracy that's losing power. As far as jobs are concerned, the US is first and foremost a service industry and manufacturing simply pays less and less of a role. And you might chalk that up to globalisation, but the fact is that the vast majority of these jobs are lost to automation and mechanisation, not trade or outsourcing.
As for the oil industry, Democrats are the ones who want to to phase it out, Republicans are the ones who talk about supporting it and even expanding it. Let's reminisce for a moment -- who was it who promised to bring coal back and who was it who gave out drilling permits like candy at Halloween? Conversely, who is placing a moratorium on oil and gas drilling on federal land? I'll give you a hint: (
https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/1/26/biden-to-announce-moratorium-on-oil-gas-drilling-on-federal-land)
As for invading other countries and support for Saudis, yes, Democrats are part of the establishment and have not shied away from continuing and furthering US imperialism, that much is true. However, the only meaningful opposition to it has also come from the Democrats. It was the Democrats who tried to patch over relations with Iran over the objections of Saudis, for example, and (
http://arabcenterdc.org/congressional_corner/democrats-and-republicans-split-on-yemen/) it has been Democrats condemning the Saudi-led invasion into Yemen. Nearly all of the Republicans supported attacking Iraq over flimsy excuses whereas less than half of Democrats did so. And look if you can spot a pattern in who opposed it: (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Congressional_opponents_of_the_Iraq_War)
As for globalisation, that is such a big topic, you could fill a Trump Dump sized thread with it and it would only be a starting point. Democrats have eagerly tried to take advantage of globalisation, yes. But it's not like anyone can put the globalisation genie back in the bottle. The best we can do is to try to counter the problems it causes.
Gryzemuis on 2/2/2021 at 08:57
Quote Posted by Pyrian
"I never said X! But, indeed X."
THE REPUBLICANS ARE BIG BRIGHT RED.The Democrats are different, but they are stll red. Not green or blue.Starker and Pyrian: don't you see the differences? The Democrats are not as red as the Republicans. They are clearly green.
@Starker, I think we don't really have different opinions. Our differences are mostly that you don't want to put the same label on the Democrats as we put on the Republicans. I get why. Yes, they are different. But in my eyes the fact that the Democrats are more moderate capitalists than the Republicans, doesn't make them no capitalists anymore. The fact that some Democrats have more progressive ideas (Bernie, AOC, etc), does't change the fact that Democratic majority and Democratic Presidents have been relatively conservative. Relative to the rest of the world.
Maybe I should't have used the word "ultra".
Again, Biden has now the power to make changes. Let's see what he does. Action speaks louder than words. I truly hope Biden will prove me wrong.
SubJeff on 2/2/2021 at 09:57
I also think you're splitting hairs a little bit on this.
They're all super capitalist, it's just the Dems aren't quite as insane as the Republicans.
Thirith on 2/2/2021 at 10:07
More than that, though, I think that part of the argument is that reducing things to just one simplistic measure and then saying, "They're all more or less the same. The difference is one of degree only." isn't particularly adequate.
SubJeff on 2/2/2021 at 10:34
From a European perspective it's a bit weird though, isn't it?
It's like comparing chocolate cake and victoria sponge. If European politics is victoria sponge, and US politics is chocolate cake then the Democrats are Fudge Cake and the Republicans are Black Forest Gateau.
Gryzemuis on 2/2/2021 at 10:41
Quote Posted by SubJeff
They're all super capitalist, it's just the Dems aren't quite as insane as the Republicans.
Exactly my point.