Renzatic on 29/3/2013 at 00:57
It would shock you in the sense that some of you don't believe modern titles allow for slow, thoughtful gameplay. I get the impression that some people are already assuming New Thief is gonna be an action packed thrill fest that's nothing at all like the source material it's based off of. Like good game design died of in '99.
thiefessa on 29/3/2013 at 01:06
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
How can you be trusted?!?!
Strange question to ask.
The fact that you can complete the game without killing anybody is old news now, or so I thought.
Anyway.... all the information can be found on EM's "Thief" site and also on the official forum.
Try also the City Watch thread (first page) and the FAQs thread, respectively.
(
http://www.thiefgame.com/)
(
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=132126)
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http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=118236)
Quote Posted by Renzatic
If it's true, it wouldn't be all that surprising. You could go through the entirety of Dishonored without killing a single person. Same for DX:HR (well, besides those stupid boss battles anyway, but they weren't important). If you can do the same in New Thief, it wouldn't shock me in the least.
Great. I didn't make that reply post to Tomi to surprise or shock you.
jtr7 on 29/3/2013 at 01:18
Quote Posted by Renzatic
It would shock you in the sense that some of you don't believe modern titles allow for slow, thoughtful gameplay. I get the impression that some people are already assuming New Thief is gonna be an action packed thrill fest that's nothing at all like the source material it's based off of. Like good game design died of in '99.
No. Again. You can happily purge that from your perspective. It has a place in another context, but even then, modified heavily from how you think it is.
We (and I know it's a thing to suspect that word as a Royal "We", but also...no.) are not wanting violent options to have an
increased presence in a game where even the first two allowed it to a good extent, but held back enough to annoy combative players. Tough. We are wondering about all the players who were never satisfied with how much violence was allowed and have wanted more, wanted more means of delivering brutality, and want more confrontational gameplay, and improved combat. Are those players going to get their way, and will the rest of the game suffer in any way for less time spent improving the stealth? One more time, Renz', it's about
how much more attention has been given to the non-stealth and that jack-"stealth" that equals a quieter surprise attack. The Focus feature is already taking it further, and the slipping around the killing by providing a palette of brutal moves that just happen to not kill, to satiate the combatant players, are too many things requiring a lot of attention from the designers, animators, testers, coders, etc., so--and here again, Renz'--as long as the foundation isn't shifted or screwed over to make room for the
extra violence, and 3rd-Person mechanics, there won't be much of a problem from our camp.
We don't know enough so we keep asking. That's all. It's brought up until the answers arrive. We, yeah we, are not going to buy the game first to find out. The truth is out there. :sly:
HSM on 29/3/2013 at 01:41
Quote Posted by Renzatic
It would shock you in the sense that some of you don't believe modern titles allow for slow, thoughtful gameplay.
This is indeed the crux of the matter as far as I am concerned.
Here now, then then and always and forever it seems, games rarely do offer the genuine lush, lovely and thoughtful gameplay as "our" dear Thief. And yes most of all these new derivative gidgets and gadgetries only do make for
more ...junk.
Console, casual, walk-me-through, light'em-up conventions are
really something.
It's, I suppose for some reactive set, to mock all those who recognize those conventions as alarmists. Much like (yes, I will) there are a set wont to cry "playing the race card!" as if racism isn't alive and sickening still, in a big, huge, insidious way.
"We" don't have shelves full of "thoughtful gameplay" (and never have); so we need to do our best to be vigilant about this beauty, Thief; and not just shrug our shoulders; and hope for the best; and "wait for more info" in the face of new info that indicates quite clearly misstakes and missteps.
Quote Posted by Stephane Roy, Rebootee
Ten to fifteen years ago, you'd have to watch the guards patrol and wait for a moment to move. If the guards saw you, it wasn't really game over, but it was almost like you might as well just press the reset button. The big difference today is that players don't want to play the same sections over and over again. Our job is really to make it so that when you are seen you have options to move through or stumble the guards and then jump back in the shadows.
This, again, from Stephane Roy, who doesn't seem to understand that "waiting for your moment to move" is the very f****** essence.
Dilibrate. Thoughtful. Sneaksie. Thief.
jtr7 on 29/3/2013 at 01:46
And Renz', there are very few people here who don't/can't play many games, and there are several people here who do play lots of other games and buy games every year who know there's a difference in Thief compared to them all. The differences cannot be over-generalized, or yes, it will sound stupid, but that's the point of over-generalizing when you can't argue on actual merits, and let things speak for themselves.
Renzatic on 29/3/2013 at 01:56
You're speaking from your perspective, and you're not exactly who I'm referring to with what I said above. I mean can you honestly say the same thing about Vae? Van Hellsing? Goldmoon Dawn? After all the times they've screamed about EM ruining this, that, and the other, and how it's being dumbed down, and blah blah blah? It's rather obvious they don't believe a game like Thief could sell in this day and age, and EM will have to destroy the franchise just to make something that'll be popular.
...which isn't true at all.
Quote:
We don't know enough so we keep asking. That's all. It's brought up until the answers arrive. We, yeah we, are not going to buy the game first to find out. The truth is out there. :sly:
I want to believe, JTR. I WANT TO BELIEVE!
Renzatic on 29/3/2013 at 02:00
Quote Posted by HSM
This, again, from Stephane Roy, who doesn't seem to understand that "waiting for your moment to move" is the very f****** essence.
Dilibrate. Thoughtful. Sneaksie. Thief.
I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying there. He's not talking about making the game fast paced in comparison to deliberate, thoughtful, sneaksie, Thief. Rather, he's talking about always having a way out if you mess up, rather than having to hit reload as soon as you're spotted because you're as good as dead.
I've discussed this before, and I came to agree with what he's saying. You want something that breaks immersion? It's having to slam your finger down on the quickload button over and over again because you quicksaved in a bad position. Being spotted and cornered shouldn't be an insta-fail scenario. It should be a hard situation to get out of, but not 100% impossible.
HSM on 29/3/2013 at 02:17
Quote Posted by Renzatic
I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying there. He's not talking about making the game fast paced in comparison to deliberate, thoughtful, sneaksie, Thief. Rather, he's talking about always having a way out if you mess up, rather than having to hit reload as soon as you're spotted because you're as good as dead.
Problem with your correction of my misunderstanding is that this is not true that you would have to hit quickload (reset!) -- you know that and I know that; escape and more deliberation was to be had most of the time.
So, what Roy is really up to there is unloading a heap of bullshit so as a way of justifying other things in that same article which indicate that though you have a game called Thief you needn't play a Thief... You can take on, say, 3 guards and not be bothered with escaping... be on your merry way! Just "mash" the focus button instead and who know how many missteps you can take amongst, say, 3 or more!
This is the essential: "waiting for your moment to move..."
This is not true: "you might as well just press the reset button."
And these are just a few of the many, many things that really I would expect you to be concerned about.
jtr7 on 29/3/2013 at 02:21
I knew you would take the quick and incorrect guess, Renz'. How embarrassing it will be for you when you realize your fundamental mistake and know you have more in common with your "enemy". Hahahaha! :( The threat of public humiliation before your esteemed peers won't let you see what has always been there staring right at you, hidden in plain sight! The horror. Sorry, taffer, 'tis true. :joke:
HINT: The list of names is a lot longer!
