AR Master on 12/4/2007 at 15:29
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Stitch on 12/4/2007 at 16:13
Quote Posted by Lady Taffer
There are a few violent films today that I rather like and I'm still trying to figure out what it is about them that I'm ok with as opposed to others.
The problem is you're lumping a variety of different types of movies under the label "violent films" with little to no attention paid to the context and intent of each film's violence. The stylized and titillating violence in 300 serves a very different purpose than the shockingly brutal violence in Pan's Labyrinth. One is supposed to be thrilling, the other not.
Actually, that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the problem with your posts in this thread, but you've backed off from the ledge a bit and started presenting something that almost resembles an argument, so you're at least heading in the right direction.
Swiss Mercenary on 12/4/2007 at 17:42
Quote Posted by Rug Burn Junky
Lady Taffer, which was it, your father, an uncle or a family friend, that molested you when you were younger?
All of them at once, no doubt.
Lady Taffer on 12/4/2007 at 22:28
I was not molested at all in my life, but I am in the extreme minority of women who aren't and making jokes about rape is absolutely not funny. Do not do it again, you two.
But that's just the problem, Stitch, why is it that people want certain types of violence to be thrilling? Violence absolutely is not, so why do they want to portray it in media?
I'm rubbish at debating, but the general foundation of my argument is what I said above, pretty much. Why is some brutality made to be thrilling? Is it because it satisfies the violent streak in all of us? That's the only conclusion I can come to.
Lady Taffer on 12/4/2007 at 22:30
Quote Posted by Jackablade
Honestly, he's joking. Get the flavour of Comm Chat before you start posting in it.
It's not funny.
TF on 12/4/2007 at 22:41
Quote Posted by Lady Taffer
It's not funny.
Quote Posted by Lady Taffer
I was not molested at all in my life, but I am in the extreme minority of women who aren't and making jokes about rape is absolutely not funny. Do not do it again, you two.
But that's just the problem, Stitch, why is it that people want certain types of violence to be thrilling? Violence absolutely is not, so why do they want to portray it in media?
I'm rubbish at debating, but the general foundation of my argument is what I said above, pretty much. Why is some brutality made to be thrilling? Is it because it satisfies the violent streak in all of us? That's the only conclusion I can come to.
Quote Posted by Lady Taffer
Yeah, I was thinking about it a lot and I figured it really does come down to personal taste. I'm sure there must be lot of decent good folks who enjoy that kind of thing . .. though I guess I never will understand why, and plenty of really scummy people get off on this stuff .. it's just impossible to really tell one from the other.
It really irks me because I realized the whole tone of my arguments sounds like I'm preaching a huge sermon, and frankly it's true. The one thing I
would urge you though, if you don't already, is enjoy your violent films, but be mindful of them and what is it about them you really enjoy and is that healthy, is it not. . etc. .
There are a few violent films today that I rather like and I'm still trying to figure out what it is about them that I'm ok with as opposed to others.
AR Master, whether you're really a mysoginist prick or just joking (which I doubt) . .either way, welcome to my ignore list. Have a nice day. :)
Quote Posted by Lady Taffer
I'm not saying that we somehow can't distinguish reality from the cartoonish nonsense on the screen--I know people aren't that stupid. What I'm saying is that it's disturbing how desensitized people are to violence, that many of them seem to enjoy watching this stuff without at least thinking "WHY am I enjoying this. ." and the only explanation I can come up with is that most folks, at least in North America have no concept of what real violence, dehumanization and adversity is. I certainly didn't as a child and it was then that I watched my action movies without questioning them once.
I've become a lot more exposed to violence and hatred in recent years and I'm beginning to take more notice of this culture's view on commercial violence.
Quote Posted by Lady Taffer
Pulp Fiction seemed to have a story, though, which was what interested me. There were a lot of other things I didn't like about the movie, though. Does Grindhouse have a story beyond it's B-Movieness exhibited in the trailer? I don't have any desire to find out.
However I don't think violence in this society is as unaccaptable as you might think. What I notice in a lot of violent films these days atrocities and objectivity aimed particularly at women and this sort of violence IS covertly acceptable in this society and when it does happen it's barely noted and the offenders are usually only punished lightly.
As a woman, if I were to go into a theater and watch a movie like this and see violence and objectification leveled at women it does not give me an adrenaline rush, it makes my skin crawl, it makes me sick to my stomach and it enrages me because I know that any man I might meet, if he so chose and by the privilage of his sex, can violate me whether it's crooning obscenely at me in the street or abducting and raping me and even if I reported it I'd probably be labeled a liar or that I was a "slut who was asking for it." Even if he did get jailed it would only be for a short time, and then he's back on the street to terrorize some other woman. . .the point of all that is when I see movies like this I get a clear message from the makers that all that I mentioned above is "OK" and acceptable.
On the flip side in a lot of these movies, the female characters are usually made really agressive these days and they slaughter their male antagonists just as easily. This doesn't give me an adrenaline rush either, in fact, it makes me mad because it's a big fat lie. The vast majority of women do not fight like this and many cannot protect themselves. The message I get from this is that the directors were like "Well, shit, we're a bunch of mysoginist pricks who wanna make our own violent jerk-off fantasies but we can't let anyone FIND OUT. . .I know! We'll make the chicks just as violent and aggressive as the dudes because violence of course, equals strength. That will totally pull the wool over their eyes!"
Could I be wrong? Possibly, but I know I personally get an icky feeling from these genres and frankly I don't care if I'm wrong or not because I don't need to go anywhere near these flicks.
I have similar feelings about men inflicting violence on other men, as well; I don't like it at all. I know I have an incredibly violent streak deep down inside, so I'm not sure how to reconcile this with my incredible distast for violent media. .*sigh*
A lot of the stories I write for my comics have a lot of violence in them, but that is a type of violence that's part of the story in the events that affect the characters. It's the whole glorification and "violence is so COOL!" thing I just don't get.
Quote Posted by Lady Taffer
1. I was never a "rape connoisseur," I simply liked action movies where lots of things got blown up and people got killed
2. Yes, I do know what sociopathic means and yes I honestly beleive that most of the population is sociopathic to a degree whether consciously or not.
3. I know that first-hand experience is far superior to verbal explanation, I just reacted out of thoughtless anger in my first post. I honestly want to know, though, why people are entertained by glorified violence? That's the type of person I've found that hasn't had any real first-hand experience with violence either.
Lady Taffer on 12/4/2007 at 22:46
That's more like it.
Pyrian on 12/4/2007 at 23:41
Quote Posted by Lady Taffer
Honestly, why do people see these movies? Don't they at any time sit back and go "Why am I watching this?" "Why does violence entertain me?"
Yeah, why does glorified violence and brutality entertain people? Thoughts?
Quote Posted by Lady Taffer
I honestly want to know, though, why people are entertained by glorified violence?
I'm inclined to wonder if you're asking rhetorical questions based on the rest of your rants, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and give you a reasoned, if not proven, theory.
"Play" is a class of behavior across many species defined by being (A) not immediately useful but (B) a useful learning experience for overcoming challenges later in feral life. The archetype example is kittens: they sneak, they pounce, they wrestle, they chase, all accomplishing nothing immediate. But the skills they learn in this "play" behavior can be useful throughout their feral lives (not so much, the domesticated ones).
It seems reasonable (if not outright obvious) that what we consider "entertainment" is a direct ancestor of the standard "play" behavior of many animals.
Like a domesticated kittens, boys (in particular) "play" at violence and frequently enjoy such "play/entertainment" throughout their lives; and, like domesticated cats, it's really not useful training the way it is for feral examples of the species.
Many attempts have been made to link violent play/entertainment with violent behavior, but such links have never been convincingly demonstrated. (Compare to the link between actual violent behavior and subsequent, more extreme violent behavior, which is well established.)
Lady Taffer on 13/4/2007 at 00:28
Well that makes sense, but how do they really know it's violent play instead of actual violent behavior itself? For one of the kids involved, they may not be having fun and feel threatened but too afraid to speak up and on the flip side they may be enjoying violent play and violent images but there may be something more sinister behind it all, like in the back of their minds they're thinking "I wish I could get away with doing this for real." In either case, it's virtually impossible to tell if this is so unless you're able to read their minds.
Well. . leaving that aside and going onto another question: If violent play and fantasy doesn't lead to actual violent behavior, what does? . . .That one there is more of a rhetorical question.
