Malleus on 24/10/2017 at 14:28
I haven't played MGS5, but isn't that system basically the same an in Snake Eater? You had different camo patterns in that too, and your visibility depended on where you were combined with what camo you were using, with some pretty interesting situations like the reddish pattern providing the best camoulage when you had your back to a brick wall. Going prone made you more visible in that case. Granted, that game gave you a clear percentage value for your visibility at any moment, plus you could swap camo patterns on the fly IIRC.
Btw, I will eat my own head if Splinter Cell ever returns to its stealth roots.
EDIT:
Quote Posted by Judith
In terms of systems design, I don't remember a modern stealth game that has e.g. more complex AI alertness system than original Thief series.
IIRC Splinter Cell Chaos Theory was slightly more advanced, not sure if that game counts as "modern". At least I remember it having some interesting behavior, like when you annoyed a guard enough without revealing yourself, next time they heard something they wouldn't go to investigate, they'd just panic and start shooting in the noise's direction. There were also parts where they reacted to your shadow, for example.
Renault on 24/10/2017 at 14:57
Quote Posted by Malleus
Btw, I will eat my own head if Splinter Cell ever returns to its stealth roots.
I haven't played it, but I thought I heard that Blacklist kind of got back to emphasizing stealth more, after Conviction went all actiony.
Tony_Tarantula on 24/10/2017 at 19:37
Quote Posted by Starker
Bioware is not synonymous with RPG. That is just one company. There were many other RPGs after Baldur's Gate like Arcanum, VTMB, Gothic, Wizardry 8, etc.
What happened was that big cRPGs stopped being made when companies focused on consoles and the big RPGs that did come out had to be streamlined for consoles. This is how you get "dumbed down" RPGs like Dragon Age and Mass Effect.
Also, there are lots of old school RPGs around these days, now that the PC market is relevant -- The Witcher, Dark Souls, Tyranny, Wasteland, Divinity: Original Sin, Shadowrun, etc.
Have seen somewhat of a revival there is well, but here's the rub:
All of the titles that we're talking about have been made outside normal publishing and production channels. Dark Souls and Witcher were both made by studios outside America/Western Europe (which also accounts for why they had somewhat edgy content rather corporate focus-tested blandness), and the others were created by studios that don't work for the major publishers.
Besides which RPG's were only one part of the post.
Jason Moyer on 24/10/2017 at 19:41
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
Of course not, but it DOES take a level of patience that doesn't fit well with today's goldfish attention span.
I'm not sure attention spans are the problem when the most popular games have hundreds if not thousands of repetitive hours of gameplay.
Starker on 24/10/2017 at 20:29
Big publishers always have and always will look at what brings the most revenue and chase after the latest popular thing. It's simple greed/economics, not some kind of developer lazyiness or player stupidity or falling game design standards. Niche genres like horror games, stealth games, adventure games, and complex RPGs (as opposed to action games with RPG elements) will never meet publisher expectations, as Dead Space proved.
