Thirith on 24/6/2009 at 09:03
Quote Posted by Vivian
Which for some reason doesn't extend to 'God did evolution'.
Fundies are great at creating adversaries for themselves, because fighting against an enemy can be a powerful uniting force. Doesn't have to be logical - in fact, in can help to leave logic behind, because once you do that you're unassailable. If you can't beat them on their own territory, fight your battle in a different territory - in this case, La La Land.
Namdrol on 24/6/2009 at 09:15
"For reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things." - Martin Luther
"There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is the disease of curiosity. It is this which drives us to try and discover the secrets of nature, those secrets which are beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing and which man should not wish to learn" - Augustine.
(Who was a convert from Manicheanism. It's often the converts who are worse at the old holier than thou.)
DDL on 24/6/2009 at 09:21
Did anyone follow the link at the bottom? Oh god that site is gold dust. There's an "Intelligent design vs Evolution" board game! Man, if it wasn't basically 'giving money to fundies', I'd so buy that.
Also "YOU COULD WIN 10,000 DOLLARS IF YOU CAN PROVE EVOLUTION"
Yes..10,000 whole US dollars! Gosh. I assume there will be small print claiming it has to be 'macroevolution' or whatever, since proving that things like bacteria and yeast evolve is an experiment I could do on my own bench in a week.
It really does seem like they're not even attempting to put together a coherent standpoint, since there are books telling you ALL SCIENCE IS LIES, right next to books telling you THE BIBLE IS SCIENCE. Is it basically a hope that if they make enough noise it doesn't really matter what they're saying?
Nicker on 24/6/2009 at 09:31
I was just about to post about the (
http://www.intelligentdesignversusevolution.com/arguments.html) $10,000 Evo Challenge.
Quote:
So here’s my challenge: I will give $10,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found a genuine living transitional form (a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx—a dinosaur that produced a bird). Species do not cross, no matter how long you leave them. The whole of creation is proof that evolution is truly “a fairytale for grownups.”
Epic, Stunning Stupidity!
If I could produce a living dinosaur, let alone one capable of birthing chickens, I'd expect a damned sight more than ten grand!
DDL on 24/6/2009 at 09:33
HOLY SHIT.
That really is quite the challenge. Lizard to bird is the only one of those that might even possibly follow an evolutionary hierarchy. They might as well be saying "DO HUMANS GIVE BIRTH TO CORAL REEFS? NO? THEN EVOLUTION IS WRONG".
Vivian on 24/6/2009 at 09:34
I 100% guarantee you that I can get you a living dinosaur that will birth chickens. Also, sorry to be a stickler but lizard to bird? Um. Not really. Dogs and kittens are way, way more closely related.
DDL on 24/6/2009 at 09:43
Quote Posted by Vivian
I 100% guarantee you that I can get you a living dinosaur that will birth chickens. Also, sorry to be a stickler but lizard to bird? Um. Not really. Dogs and kittens are way, way more closely related.
Linearly or laterally?
I mean, something that most closely would look like a lizard to a fundie would I assume be higher up on the tree than a bird, whereas dogs and kittens are right next to each other, but on different branches...if you get what I mean.
Or is the current consensus no longer that dinosaur-like things >> birds?
O GOD I'M BACKPEDALLING ALREADY! MAYBE THEY'RE RIGHT!
Taffer36 on 24/6/2009 at 09:48
Do people remember the
peanut butter + light = life argument? HILARIOUS.
I've never understood intelligent design. If you're religious, THE WHOLE POINT OF YOUR RELIGION is that you have faith in something that is difficult to believe, and that you believe that god will reward you for doing this.
So doesn't finding evidence to back it up/turning it into a science undermine the very basic concept of FAITH?Edit: (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504&feature=related) Peaaaaanut Buuuuutter for whoever hasn't seen it.
Vivian on 24/6/2009 at 10:03
Well, canivorans (of which both dogs and cats are a member) diverged sometime in the eocene, about 40 million years ago, with cats and dogs on either side of a basal split. The group that includes both birds (extant dinosaurs) and lizards (lepidosaurs) are the saurians, which diverged, again into a basal split with lizards on one side and birdy things on the other, some time in the permian, which is about 300 million years ago. So basically speaking, dogs are a lot more closely related to cats than lizards are to birds.
