ZylonBane on 13/11/2008 at 19:55
Quote Posted by DDL
So yes: you could say DX has boss fights, but as you note, they're clearly not boss fights in the traditional sense. For a start, they're largely avoidable (not always trivially, mind you), also, they don't 'require NPC to die to open door to continue' or anything
Except for that one that does.
Quote:
And IW did the same, which was great. How many other games allow you to 'accidentally' kill the two leaders of the illuminati with a single mis-aimed grenade?
More often than not, those two idiots got killed by the death of their own poison-gas-spewing troops.
demagogue on 13/11/2008 at 20:04
Quote Posted by heywood
And in this case, the fan viewpoints can't simply be dismissed as nostalgia, because we're still playing the game.
I think nostalgia can be a factor in some circumstances, but I can agree with the spirit of what you said. I don't think a movie studio could get away with saying this about a classic movie. No one is going say Kurosawa's techniques aren't important to directors today and fans calling for it are just blinded by nostalgia.
I think that way of thinking should go into game making, too. There are things that contribute to good games and things that don't, and like all great classics, Deus Ex should be a tome of lessons of things that were done right. Update the technology and sensibility, of course, but some lessons are meant to last.
Ostriig on 14/11/2008 at 00:24
Quote Posted by DDL
So when the devs suggest they're implementing 'boss fights', it sort of suggests that they don't consider the original games to contain any real boss fights. Which means DX3 might have super-tough flying missile-launching three-stages-of-destruction bosses.
And mechanically augmented ones, no less.
Which is worrisome.
I think that's the general idea that got mine and most other's buttocks in a boss-fights-related cringe. Hopefully, van Hellsing's new bit of René quote below your post is accurate in suggesting that's not the case, and Dugas simply... misspoke.
DDL on 14/11/2008 at 01:12
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Except for that one that does.
Hahaha oops, yeah: point taken.
Though that only happens if you don't kill her on the plane*, or at the subway station (or even through the window in the MJ12 cells, if you exploit the crappy coding).
*I did this on my first playthrough kinda just to see if I could and the fact that I was permitted to do so pretty much made me fall in love with the game.
Silkworm on 14/11/2008 at 06:17
Quote Posted by Ostriig
Which is an argument that, once again, I never made. I am well aware of how very different Deus Ex's implementation is, all I am stating is that at their core, these encounters were still based around the concept of "boss fights".
???
Yeah that's pretty much
exactly what we were saying, and I said that the brilliance of Deus Ex is how well the boss fights are woven into the story such that they don't feel like arcade-like boss fights. If you agree why did you object?
Quote Posted by demagogue
I think nostalgia can be a factor in some circumstances, but I can agree with the spirit of what you said. I don't think a movie studio could get away with saying this about a classic movie. No one is going say Kurosawa's techniques aren't important to directors today and fans calling for it are just blinded by nostalgia.
I think that way of thinking should go into game making, too. There are things that contribute to good games and things that don't, and like all great classics, Deus Ex should be a tome of lessons of things that were done right. Update the technology and sensibility, of course, but some lessons are meant to last.
^^^Perhaps the best statement made about Deus Ex on this forum ever. Well said.
The_Raven on 14/11/2008 at 11:13
"We felt that Citizen Kane wasn't exciting enough and too slow in parts. We definitely intent to improve on this with our follow-up to the classic film titled Michael Bay Presents: Citizen Kane 2: Rosebud's Revenge."
van HellSing on 14/11/2008 at 13:55
Except Deus Ex wasn't Citizen Kane, and Spector isn't Kurosawa. :rolleyes:
rachel on 14/11/2008 at 14:21
I'd pay to see that flick
DDL on 14/11/2008 at 14:24
Quote:
Except Deus Ex wasn't Citizen Kane, and Spector isn't Kurosawa.
And that makes no difference, or sense, whatsoever.
Unless you're suggesting that films and games should be treated entirely differently? Or that there's a threshold for 'greatness' above which you're unimpeachable and below which, even if only slightly, you're fair game for being ripped apart and rehashed badly?
If you want a slightly better analogy, it's more like a citizen kane prequel, in which we see rosebud, the 4wes0me neo-renaissance rocket-scooter.
Ostriig on 14/11/2008 at 16:09
Quote Posted by Silkworm
???
Yeah that's pretty much
exactly what we were saying, and I said that the brilliance of Deus Ex is how well the boss fights are woven into the story such that they don't feel like arcade-like boss fights. If you agree why did you object?
Huh? When did I object to that? I just backtracked a bit through my posts in this thread and I can't figure out which one might've given off that vibe.
