Ostriig on 10/11/2008 at 21:49
Quote Posted by Edge
“The shooting aspect of Deus Ex was very weak in my opinion,” says Dugas. “If you were precise it wasn't necessarily because you were a good player, but because your stats were boosted.”
Is this guy for real? In terms of accuracy, maxing the weapons skills in DX would allow you to take full advantage of your player skill with a mouse, it wouldn't spawn in some sort of magical auto-aim to compensate for your being made of pure suck. And it was a pretty good meld between FPS and RPG mechanics.
Quote:
“In the first game, the augmentations were a bunch of stat-boosters. They'd make you stronger perhaps, but not much would change on the screen - it was subtle and not very rewarding. That's something we wanted to change a bit. Obviously there will be augmentations that are cerebral and less spectacular - but we'll have a lot of physical augmentations that will allow you to pull off tricks that no ordinary human could. For those sequences we'll switch contextually to a thirdperson camera view so you'll see clearly what your character is able to achieve.”
I still don't like the sound of this, but I'll reserve judgment for until I actually see what they turn out to be and how they work in-game. I'm really opposed to the whole idea of being thrown into third-person, though, and I hope the game will offer me enough interesting alternatives to those specific augs.
Quote:
And if we are to take anything from Deus Ex's tale of cyborg ascendancy, it's that you have to adapt to survive.
Why does this reek of compromise to me? The sacrifice of something beautiful on an the altar of mass-market appeal? I know why they do it, and I understand where they're coming from, but I really wish it didn't have to be like this. I can't help but look at CDProjekt and drool at their (
http://ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123741) claims of being successful while addressing a more limited demographic.
Quote Posted by van HellSing
Let's see... fights with unique characters, who are more resilient than the usual cannon fodder and have some of the best weapons in the game, also special abilities. You usually fight them one-on-one, in set pieces.
No, not boss fights at all.
Gunther, Anna, Walton, basically boss fights, indeed. But, considering we all pretty much know that, heywood makes a good point - why specify that you're
adding boss fights? Just a miscommunication, or are we talking about a different kind of "bosses"?
Silkworm on 10/11/2008 at 21:51
I would argue that Deus Ex did have boss fights, but one of the many great things about the game is that they were so well woven into the story that they didn't feel like traditional, cliche end-of-level boss fights.
Malleus on 10/11/2008 at 22:32
Quote Posted by Silkworm
they didn't feel like traditional, cliche end-of-level boss fights.
Especially since you didn't have to kill said 'bosses', or you could do that without actually combatting them.
Ostriig on 10/11/2008 at 23:21
Quote Posted by Malleus
Especially since you didn't have to kill said 'bosses', or you could do that without actually combatting them.
I don't think I quite follow you there. Yes, apparently players have found ways of avoiding certain moments that would lead to a final confrontation between them and one of the DX "bosses", but those were more or less by exploiting certain "shortcomings" of the level design, they weren't part of the initial plan the devs had for the game. Not that it's a bad thing they did, but I was under the impression that the game's designers had planned for certain characters to have to be fought and defeated sooner or later.
van HellSing on 10/11/2008 at 23:25
What Ostriig said. Also:
Quote Posted by René
*cough* Yep. DX1 had them [boss fights - vH]. But DX3 isn't the Legend of Zelda - it isn't based around hitting the monster in the eye three times...this is Deus Ex which means you can do things differently...something to keep in mind.
d'Spair on 11/11/2008 at 00:04
van HellSing, I see your point, but I usually use the term 'a boss fight' when speaking about action or arcade games. When related to a game like Deus Ex, it seriously worries me. Lets hope they make 'boss fights' right in Deus Ex 3, since they decided to implement them.
Malleus on 11/11/2008 at 00:25
Quote Posted by Ostriig
...
Hm? I thought being able to kill Anna and Gunther without an actual fight was part of the devs plan, and running away from Walton also didn't seem like an exploit either.
heywood on 11/11/2008 at 00:58
Regarding the boss fights, DX1 is unusual because it gives you a lot of different choices for dealing with bosses.
You can kill Anna in the plane, kill her in the subway, kill her on your way out of UNATCO, or kill her without combat by using her kill phrase. You can even avoid killing her, but Ostriig said, I don't think that was intended.
And you can kill Gunther in Paris, or use his kill phrase, or avoid killing him. And you can kill Simons in the Ocean Lab, or kill him at Area 51, or let him live. In both cases, it seemed like the game intentionally gave you the option not to kill them.
And you have the option of fighting a big battle with MIBs in the 'ton to save Paul or sneaking out the window, and the option of surrendering to Gunther at Battery Park or fighting till you're incapacitated. And of course the option of how to deal with Page.
That's why when Dugas says they're "adding" boss fights, I assume that they mean something different, something more typical for action games. In other words, something like Bioshock's boss fights.
Ostriig on 11/11/2008 at 01:13
Quote Posted by Malleus
Hm? I thought being able to kill Anna and Gunther without an actual fight was part of the devs plan, and running away from Walton also didn't seem like an exploit either.
Oh, you meant that! Yeah, there's the killphrase, but that still, well,
kills them. As for Walton, you're right, I usually just run from him at the Ocean lab, and I suppose you could lose him at Area 51 too.
Quote Posted by heywood
And you can kill Gunther in Paris, or use his kill phrase, or avoid killing him. And you can kill Simons in the Ocean Lab, or kill him at Area 51, or let him live. In both cases, it seemed like the game intentionally gave you the option not to kill them.
Is there any way to avoid killing Gunther at the cathedral, aside from trying to avoid his trigger when entering the room?
heywood on 11/11/2008 at 01:35
Quote Posted by Ostriig
Is there any way to avoid killing Gunther at the cathedral, aside from trying to avoid his trigger when entering the room?
Sure. You can hurt him and he will run away. Unlike Anna, who will fight to her death, Gunther gives up pretty easily. That's why I think the designers intended to allow you to let him live.
