ZylonBane on 24/10/2008 at 15:31
Quote Posted by Brem_X_Jones
I think making a decent DX game is probably the hardest job in Western Games Development, and pulling it off would be pretty much miraculous.
Based on Invisible War and what little concrete data we've been given on DX3, it seems the hardest part is resisting the urge to "modernize" the design of the original.
Unwarranted hubris must be a hiring requirement for design leads these days.
Ostriig on 24/10/2008 at 15:43
Quote Posted by Brem_X_Jones
But I'm not going to write it off until I see more.
I'm most probably not going to write it off until I play it for myself. Let's be honest, we're all bitching and whining about what little info we get and don't like - and that's excellent, it gives some fairly clear feedback, no matter how unsavory at times - but I expect most of those who frequent this part of the forums, at least, will want to buy it and try it out for themselves when it's released. I know I will, unless both the press and the original fanbase universally and definitely denounce it as utter shit. And I don't think things can go
that bad.
Papy on 26/10/2008 at 09:00
Based on experience, the press will most probably say Deus Ex 3 is a fantastic game, the original fans will say it's utter shit. As for me, I will probably take the time to try the demo, even if things like auto-healing are still there, but I won't buy a game simply to find out if it's good or not (I didn't buy fallout 3 and I have no intention to). If there is no demo, I will buy the game only if almost everyone here say it's better than Invisible War.
thiefinthedark on 5/11/2008 at 12:52
I was going to post this here a week or so ago when it first broke, but i figured someone beat me to the punch and stuck it in the generic DX3 thread hanging about these parts. Was wrong I guess.
The thing that galls me is the sheer pretentiousness of companies these days, thinking they have the muster to take a much-lauded and favorite series and turn its name in their favor, just to sell their own design.
See, the problem is this: The publishers refuse to publish anything that steps outside of the norm in the industry today. Unless it has proven itself in some way, or you are a name like John Carmack, you can pretty much take your idea and stuff it. Hence why we have companies like Rare taking the B&K series and turning it into a completely different game with the B&K name stamped on it.
Hence why we have Eidos montreal doing completely insane things with DX3. (Aside: This is a prequel? I sure as hell couldn't rip people through walls using augs in DX1 or (shudder) DX2, so what hell is going on here, hmm?).
For those of you who don't know (i post rarely) I am getting a degree in game design and have been fiddling with it for about half a decade. Interestingly, neither I nor my fellow classmates can figure out what is so very, very wrong with the industry these days. As designers ourselves, we cannot come even close to justifying most of the decisions made in modern games, its as if the designers are so closeted in their own little worlds that nothing but their ideas on paper matters any more.
The more likely reason, however, is the one above. We have some really talented designers who are chafing at the bit to make their own radical new games and bend the rules for them, but the corporate vice of the publishers and development houses is forcing them to toe the line of generic crap that they trust because its formula has sold for two decades. So the designers take the only outlet they can: Take an established name and rape it with their own design till a zombie baby of both is born to universal distaste. Sadly, the players are the ones that suffer.
Its 4 am and I haven't slept since 5 am yesterday. Best i just go back to homework now. Hopefully that enlightened you as to why DX3 and pretty much every game for the next several years is going to make you cry. :tsktsk:
Ostriig on 5/11/2008 at 16:17
Quote Posted by thiefinthedark
(Aside: This is a prequel? I sure as hell couldn't rip people through walls using augs in DX1 or (shudder) DX2, so what hell is going on here, hmm?).
If JC could turn invisible by (
http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Deus_Ex/Augmentations#Cloak) changing his skin colour
while wearing clothes, I can pretty much accept that this Adam might have had his skeleton consolidated to support a mechanical arm with the strength of a high-powered jackhammer. The issue with what we know about augs, at least, isn't one of technical veracity or continuity, as some allowances must be made for both "sci-fi" as well as the evolution of game tech. The problem is that the augs that we've been told about seem more like flashy action-oriented superhero powers, rather than valid military developments to fit in the game's world context.
Quote Posted by thiefinthedark
Hopefully that enlightened you as to why DX3 and pretty much every game for the next several years is going to make you cry. :tsktsk:
Enlightened? You yourself admit that you
can't find the justifications for these unfortunate design decisions. And that publishers are reluctant to take risks isn't something new, nor is the fact that franchise names like Deus Ex are very attractive for marketing purposes.
I don't expect Deus Ex 3 to be a revelation. I'm sure it won't come anywhere near the stunning experience that the first title was for me back in 2000. But that doesn't mean it can't be a good game in its own right. And the little information we have so far, even coupled with the pessimism characteristic of the original's fans, myself included, is not enough to state that DX3 will necessarily "make you cry". Just keep your expectations in check and wait for when we get closer to the release date, at least.
thiefinthedark on 5/11/2008 at 16:46
Ah, I was indeed unclear. The only justification that I and my compatriots can determine for this madness is the one I mentioned in my prior post: that the developers are not permitted to try anything new via the risk of a new IP and thus need the name of an established series to do it.
Granted, there are rare exceptions, but if you look on the store shelves by far the majority of games are a mere repackaging of previous titles, or completely new and radical designs with a familiar title slapped on them to sell.
I should refrain from writing on this little sleep.:bored:
The_Raven on 5/11/2008 at 16:50
I really wish more people would pay attention to the proverb that "if you try to please everyone, you'll end up pleasing no one."
Blaze on 5/11/2008 at 23:09
Quote Posted by René
Hi all,
When he's referring to memorable moments, he just wants more of the significant ones, not less of the subtle ones, which DX3 like DX1 has. As good as DX1 was/is, it is very "even" with its narrative. In DX3, we are keeping those low-level revelations but also trying to deliver on bigger ones too.
Speaking in metaphores; there's no peaks without plains. Or if there's too much peak, they won't be significant. And DX1 has a real good narrative rythm to create the experience of significant moments and remain interesting between them.
[But ZB has already told this in other words...]
Well, i am really interested what do you mean exactly under these words. Probably i misunderstood it... However for me personally, nearly the whole DX1 was memorable, but i'm
just a fan....
My major problems are related to two other aspects of the game (based on the released infos):
-Graphical stilisation seems to tend to an Invisible War/Bioshock way (Neorenaissance enterieurs, wierd NPC clothing fashions), however DX3 is a prequel, and DX1's stilization was quite a consolidated one, mainly based on nowadays environments etc.
-In DX3's narrrative age, there are only Mechanical augmentation but it seems to me that we will see the strangest augmentations ever in DX universe. I mean how can someone upgrades itself mechanically to be able to walking through walls (???) and so on...
[Sorry, thiefinthedark has indicated this problem already...]
These seems to be really controversary for me to a
DX1 prequel...
So it's true that it's real hard to develop a DX game, but it's the hardest when it's a prequel, because you should reamin in the context of an universe alredy created while you trying to come up with new features...
(In my opinion, the best decision for DX3's narrative setting would be a spin off. Ok, i know it's not a question actually...)
[Sorry for possible repetitions, i wrote this post after reading Renés one... and sorry for spelling too! :sweat: ]
redrain85 on 10/11/2008 at 04:14
So, finally we're able to read the Edge article online.
Can't say that after reading it, that it's allayed my fears about how the game will turn out.
I noticed that the way Dugas described the third-person context switching, sounds a lot like V.A.T.S. from Fallout 3. Considering the DX3 team sent a cake to Bethesda as a message to show how much they "admired" their work, it sounds to me like they're going to use Fallout 3 as an inspiration. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know.
