The Shroud on 10/10/2013 at 00:37
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
No, Deadly Shadow invented the stupid Loot Glint. Also, the previous three Thief games were free movement exploration games, the new Thief is contextual movement only. That kinda ruins everything there buddy...
Well, let's be fair here... It doesn't literally ruin
everything. It does ruin some very, very important things, namely the sense of unlimited freedom that the previous Thief games had, which in turn degrades the player's sense of immersion as they are continually reminded that they are playing a game and that there are rules they are forced to adhere to for seemingly no logical reason.
"Why can't I jump here?"
"Because the game doesn't want you to."
"Oh, right, I'm just playing a game. I forgot."
So no, it doesn't ruin everything exactly, but it does significantly degrade it. Although, some would make the case that immersion
is everything in a game like Thief, so anything that takes away from that immersion, in a sense, takes away from the entire experience of playing the game.
New Horizon on 10/10/2013 at 01:18
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
I have no problem with them adding more ways to play the game. I think it's faulty logic to criticize the game for opening itself up to different styles of play.
The original games could already be played in whatever style you chose, they're not opening up or adding anything...what they are doing is beefing up the fast paced, flashy action, and pushing the style of gameplay that the original games embodied into the background. Essentially, they're making it like every other game out there. The first two games dared to be extremely open...this new Thief is far more locked down and on rails by the sound of it.
GodzillaX8 on 10/10/2013 at 20:46
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
No, Deadly Shadow invented the stupid Loot Glint.
I think I was just thinking of how the items highlight when you look at them.
Assuming they take any cues from Deus Ex Human Revolution, it's possible that this would be an option you could turn off.
Vae on 10/10/2013 at 21:27
Quote Posted by New Horizon
The original games could already be played in whatever style you chose, they're not opening up or adding anything...what they are doing is beefing up the fast paced, flashy action, and pushing the style of gameplay that the original games embodied into the background. Essentially, they're making it like every other game out there. The first two games dared to be extremely open...this new Thief is far more locked down and on rails by the sound of it.
Exactly, NH...
Having the ability and
encouraging violence are two different matters entirely, each aligned with a different design philosophy...With NuThief's commonplace, non-THIEF design,
violence is encouraged with XP damage rewards and weapon upgrades.
Such an aberration strikes at the very heart of the franchise...and this fine community.
Starker on 11/10/2013 at 13:16
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
I have no problem with them adding more ways to play the game. I think it's faulty logic to criticize the game for opening itself up to different styles of play. One of the main reasons people loved Deus Ex was that you could play it whatever way suited you best. I don't doubt that this game will have a satisfying stealth component, but if they want to make it more accessible to people who haven't been lurking in the shadows for 15 years, I'm okay with that.
Here's Extra Credit's take on mixing stealth and action: (
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/like-a-ninja)
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
Unless I misunderstand your post, hasn't Thief always had those?
As I said, it's not necessarily the fact that they have a certain feature, but it could also be the way the feature is implemented that I don't like. For example, I like the idea of a slight delay for pickpocketing, but I absolutely don't like the flashy timer that pops up.
LGS actually cut some of the comments out to make Garrett feel less chatty. I would not mind if the character noticed something in an environment or said something that's on his mind every once in a while, if it was done sparingly.
Quote Posted by GodzillaX8
Also, I don't have any problems with the new voice actor. Hang me if you want but I think he sounds just fine.
The problem is not that he's especially bad, the problem is that Russell is especially good. If Russell was unavailable, I would not have minded the change. For example, I have no problem that Tim Curry isn't reprising his role as Gabriel Knight for the remake.
GodzillaX8 on 11/10/2013 at 18:56
Quote Posted by Starker
The problem is not that he's especially bad, the problem is that Russell is especially good. If Russell was unavailable, I would not have minded the change. For example, I have no problem that Tim Curry isn't reprising his role as Gabriel Knight for the remake.
We should all just be thankful it didn't get Eric Johnson'd like Splinter Cell. The guy voicing Garrett at least sounds similar. Eric Johnson's Sam Fisher just sounds like Generic Soldier #053
Renzatic on 11/10/2013 at 19:11
Quote Posted by Vae
Exactly, NH...
Having the ability and
encouraging violence are two different matters entirely, each aligned with a different design philosophy...With NuThief's commonplace, non-THIEF design,
violence is encouraged with XP damage rewards and weapon upgrades.
Such an aberration strikes at the very heart of the franchise...and this fine community.
Just because it's there doesn't mean it's encouraged, just that it's one valid option among many.
Though it's true that this doesn't play true to the heart of the series, which on higher difficultly levels required stealth over violence. Everything I've seen about Thief 4/nuThief/whatever tells me that it's hewing more closely to the Deus Ex mold than it is to classic Thief.
GodzillaX8 on 11/10/2013 at 20:55
I just think it's weird that such a level of purism exists here. I understand enjoying the original games because I enjoy them very much myself, but why is anything that's different in the slightest a bad thing no matter what?
If you want to keep playing the same exact game, then continue playing the originals, and fan missions for the originals, and TDM, and ThieveryUT, and others that stay exceedingly close to the source material.
I'm fine with them trying to make a new game with elements of the old and some new ones. I don't really think it's somehow insulting the originals or ruining them by having a new game that isn't more of the same. I don't honestly see why they would bother trying to make exactly the same game but with shinier graphics.
If it's not a good game, then that's one thing, but just because it's not exactly the same thing isn't exactly a valid criticism in my opinion. It's a reboot, not a sequel.
Starker on 11/10/2013 at 21:55
I don't want the exact same game, I want something that is better than the old games, or at least equal to them in some way. Thief had a great formula and I would want it improved, not thrown out and replaced with modern stuff.
Things like restricting freedom of movement, reducing player agency, and introducing metagame elements to a series that aimed for direct simulation are not new and innovative. They are not improvements on the old mechanics.
In fact, a lot of the stuff that has been introduced smacks of homogenisation -- for example the focus stuff, RPG progression, and upgrading your weapons are what many games do these days.
Goldmoon Dawn on 11/10/2013 at 22:41
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Just because it's there doesn't mean it's encouraged, just that it's one valid option among many.
Brother Renzatic. Wouldst thou care to please elaborate, in fine detail, which of these "many valid options" have recieved more attention and development resources than the new complex combat system?
For that matter, expound upon *any* other valid option, let alone "many"! I just want to hear in your words what these many other valid options other are, other than combat
Brother Renzatic?!?!
:ebil:
