EvaUnit02 on 5/9/2010 at 05:08
Quote Posted by Eldron
Was that even ever a problem?
If you value immersion, it most definitely is it a problem.
june gloom on 5/9/2010 at 05:56
Yeah, I don't know how we ever got this far with this mindless pressing a key to hit a button, it was so immersion-breaking.
EvaUnit02 on 5/9/2010 at 06:54
Manipulating physics objects with "invisible arms" has always bothered me, Deus Ex 1, Half-Life 1 & 2, The Dark Mod, whatever. Even more so after we've had first person games with full body presence like Crysis, FEAR 2, Far Cry 2 and AvP 2010.
Of course I'm more than willing to put it aside since they're an extremely small indie developer, who're always on the verge of imploding (IIRC, a Steam mega sale has saved their arses at least once). Also the fact that it would be a very hard job to do for a some what non-linear gameplay experience (puzzle solving in this case, I imagine); the variables that would require to be animated would probably be immense.
june gloom on 5/9/2010 at 07:14
The problem is that most implementations of non-invisible hands are either awful-looking, or generally one of those semi-cinematic things where you're pulled in and you watch your hands move (Monolith's recent games being a good example.) I think it may be a long while before we see something as dynamic as what's in Frictional's games being implemented with visible hands in such a way that looks realistic. Unfortunately there currently seems to be no middle ground.
That said, you are so far the only person I know who this has ever been a problem with. Invisible hands have been a part of first person gaming almost since FPS games had buttons to push. The rest of us just plain fucking
Inline Image:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/Half_Hearted_Juliet/flhrp2jpg.gifnicked on 5/9/2010 at 08:03
If anything, seeing my character's body parts invading my screen edges makes it less immersive for me.
E.g. I stop to pull a bullet out of my forearm in Farcry 2, and think "Hey wait a minute, I don't have a tattoo!"
Not being able to see your hands manipulating stuff - I put it in the same category as "Not being able to feel actual pain when I get shot" and "Not being able to smell the atmosphere when trudging through this disgusting sewer level".
gunsmoke on 5/9/2010 at 08:06
Anyone remember that HoverTits game "Trespasser" had that wonky-ass object manipulating arm. That seemed to work oh so well...:rolleyes:
Sulphur on 5/9/2010 at 08:20
There's an entire body awareness thread in the Thief 4 forums where we went over this months ago.
WHERE WERE YOU GUYS
I'm pro-body awareness, by the way. Gunny, play Mirror's Edge and Crysis and say that shit dun work, eh. :p
That said, Amnesia works fine sans viewable arms/hands. It would be pretty immersion-breaking if not done just right for the range of movements you'd need, like rotating an object in your hands, so nah, it's fine the way it is.
mothra on 5/9/2010 at 09:28
I can't imagine the work needed for a proper animation of turning an object in your hands in all directions. I rather have that option but invisible hands than not. It is in no way "immersion" breaking, immersion does not need every real world mechanic perfectly recreated. I have no problem with a "gamey" interface and interaction. the physics manip through mouse-movement is nice but it is not the thing I would say is Frictional's biggest selling point for me. it's just that their games do not suck and provide an survival experience missing in today's games.
Muzman on 5/9/2010 at 09:28
When someone goes to the bother of animating arms and hands realistically and in a context sensitive way so that you can pick up, rotate, put down, push etc almost anything in the game world without serious clipping and physics fuck ups, nobody (ar ar) will miss this event. They will be crowing it from the roof tops.
Indeed it'll probably be done by one of those physics&animation research middleware companies who do little else decided to bolt a game onto the system at the last minute.
Diligent though they are, I think it's a bit beyond Frictional at the moment.
edit for Sully: I'm generally pro body awareness in princliple. But I generally come down against it for Thief games since the two that didn't have it managed to be more immersive than just about anything (only Mirror's Edge has managed to come close. That was a long wait). The one with it suffered somewhat from the implimentation, and then there's the inevitable 3rd person foolishness (again something Mirror's Edge understood. Hacking in 3rd person in ME everyone notices the animations are 'wierd', thanks to being specifically tuned for first person). Anyway. probably better discussed elsewhere.
EvaUnit02 on 5/9/2010 at 09:30
Quote Posted by Sulphur
There's an entire body awareness thread in the Thief 4 forums where we went over this months ago.
WHERE WERE YOU GUYS
I'd rather drink turpentine than actively read the Thief 4 sub-forum. Too many Cardia-esque narrow-minded, irrational, stubborn, pseudo-English literate idiots over there. "STEAM IS THE ANTI-CHRIST!!!!!!1111" It's like a special needs version of NMA/RPG Codex.
