Sulphur on 19/12/2009 at 18:10
Yeah.
shh. I'll PM you.
heywood on 20/12/2009 at 16:59
Quote Posted by Fragony
lol how, how are these caps going to rise sea-levels with more than a few centimeters. Water could expand because of temperature rise but lower first because ice has more volume then water, tip of the iceberg thingy, eureka, and it takes much more energy to warm water then it does to warm air. Water dictates temperature not the other way around.
The majority of ice is over land, so it's not currently displacing water. As it melts, the water runs into the oceans and the sea level rises. And as somebody else already mentioned, the Greenland ice sheet contains enough frozen water to raise the sea level up to 7m (if it fully melted). And the Antarctic ice sheet contains about 10 times that much.
Yes, it takes much more energy to warm water than it does to warm air, which is
precisely why I wanted to look up sea level trends. While there may be some disagreements about the land surface air temperature record, there's really no way for the sea level to rise on a faster than geologic time scale other than melting ice and thermal expansion. So rising sea levels are a very strong indication that Earth's biosphere has a net positive energy balance.
jay pettitt on 20/12/2009 at 18:28
Quote Posted by Fragony
At least somebody didn't fly with private jet. But cycling 1000 km and back isn't going to change the fact that the earth hasn't been warming up for 10 year despite a steady rise of CO2.
Why, thankyou - it's nice to be appreciated. But that doesn't alter the fact that brief periods of less or even no warming aren't significant in terms of the overall warming trend. There are lots of variable factors that influence climate that at any time can reinforce or undermine the CO2 forcing, it's just that the CO2 influence is persistant - looking for a simple linear relationship between CO2 and temperature, magically free of all other influences, and then complaining when the real world looks a bit more wobbly is just silly; but I think you know that already.
thefonz on 20/12/2009 at 18:32
My logic is simple: the planet has survived for years and humans have been a microsecond of time on it. Are we so full of ourselves that we thing we can now lord it over the climate? Bullshit, its cyclical so what happens happens.
Oh, and I'm British.
Fragony on 20/12/2009 at 18:41
Quote Posted by heywood
Yes, it takes much more energy to warm water than it does to warm air, which is
precisely why I wanted to look up sea level trends.
And what did you find, no rise here and I am Dutch so I hate rising sea levels.
Stitch on 20/12/2009 at 19:37
Quote Posted by thefonz
My logic is simple: the planet has survived for years and humans have been a microsecond of time on it. Are we so full of ourselves that we thing we can now lord it over the climate?
Do you think the ozone hole is a naturally occurring phenomenon?
wait, why am i even trying
SD on 20/12/2009 at 19:45
Quote Posted by thefonz
My logic is simple
Quote Posted by Merriam-Webster
Main Entry: sim·ple
Pronunciation: \ˈsim-pəl\
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): sim·pler \-p(ə-)lər\; sim·plest \-p(ə-)ləst\
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Medieval Latin simplus, alteration of Latin simplic-, simplex single, having one ingredient, plain, from sem-, sim- one + -plic-, -plex -fold — more at same, -fold
Date: 13th century
1 : free from guile : innocent
2 a : free from vanity : modest b : free from ostentation or display <a simple outfit>
3 : of humble origin or modest position <a simple farmer>
4 a : lacking in knowledge or expertise <a simple amateur of the arts> b (1) : stupid (2) : mentally retarded c : not socially or culturally sophisticated : naive; also : credulousYou got that right, at least
Fragony on 21/12/2009 at 08:13
Quote Posted by thefonz
My logic is simple: the planet has survived for years and humans have been a microsecond of time on it. Are we so full of ourselves that we thing we can now lord it over the climate? Bullshit, its cyclical so what happens happens.
Oh, and I'm British.
Plain common sense, problem is that when you have it you get assaulted from behind by the Danish police, even if your name is Lord Mockhton and you are a representative. CO2 isn't absolutely terrifying but people who are absolutely terrified of CO2 and those who grow fat on their terror are pretty creepy.
Namdrol on 21/12/2009 at 08:15
Quote Posted by Fragony
I'll stop, should have stopped earlier...
:confused:
Fragony on 21/12/2009 at 08:26
Quote Posted by Namdrol
:confused:
Yeah I failed, but now that representatives who aren't absolutely terrified of CO2 aren't allowed to enter the building and get assaulted by the Danish police from behind the religion is becoming even more perverse, it now has an inquisition and they will resort to violence if your faith isn't strong enough. Goddamn hippies.
