mikjames on 29/5/2018 at 16:56
Forgot to mention some upcoming games that are sure to be instant classics, or even revolutionary. My shortlist is Vampyr (clearly has roots in VTMB, though focuses on a specific character), Skywind (sure it won't be Morrowind, but it will be a heck of an experience), and Titanic Honor & Glory (has anything ever been recreated in such stunning detail? I hope the gameplay is as well crafted as the ship itself). It's a good time to be a pc gamer :)
The Thief games will always hold a special place in my chest cavity (where most people have a heart), but I've learned that it's far better to enjoy what I have rather than getting caught up in what I don't have. I followed Thief 2014 from 2009 when it was first announced, I was on the eidos forum every day discussing what we as Thief fans would like to see, thinking that we weren't just talking at a brick wall. I learned a valuable lesson that it isn't worth focusing on what could be, unless you want to be incredibly disappointed after 5 long years. Soon after the novelty of Thief 2014 wore off, I went back to playing the original Thief triology, T2X, and Dishonored, and I slowly realized that there really isn't anything missing, the Thief games are still alive and well, sitting peacefully in my collection where they will bring me joy for many decades to come :)
Naked on 29/5/2018 at 20:00
Quote Posted by mikjames
the Thief games are still alive and well, sitting peacefully in my collection where they will bring me joy for many decades to come :)
Prophetic. Seriously, great list of games that should be played -- I am not speaking out against them. Although as fun as GTA V is to express our violent inner criminal, is it really going to bring most of us joy for "many decades to come"? Nah, that's the magic only Thief holds, IMO.
Starker on 29/5/2018 at 20:43
At this point, I don't think I will ever get tired of Dark Souls. I really thought that at least after all the clones I'd get sick of it, but no, jumped into the remaster and the magic is still there. And I think it will be for many decades.
Thief isn't unique in having staying power. I still pick up games like Panzer General all the time. Or the 90s Magic The Gathering game. Or X-COM. And The Binding of Isaac has been a mainstay on my hard drive since it came out.
And even outside of highly replayable games I can play a well told story like Silent Hill 2 lots of times without getting sick of it. Heck, with that one I still occasionally make new connections or pick up on symbolism I had not thought about before.
Udo on 29/5/2018 at 22:21
Really? If you like all of them, ok, but some of these games are already the stuff that mainly caters the todays casual players. (sometimes it´s surely just a matter of taste)
Oblivion was too casualised(although it was fun), but Skyrim? I can´t take a game serious where I can become archmage with zero mage stats(and then the other members still treat me like some rookie). In Oblivion I needed at least real stealth stats to solve the quests for Dark Brotherhood and Thieves.
Also TDS was already a major letdown. Sure, with the reboot around it seems to ok, but it is symptomatical for the demise of classic games. At some point we had too much catering casuals, too much compromises to release games on many platforms, too polished settings.
In general:
It´s an issue that many series suffer, even with the original developers. Diablo III was a joke compared to 1&2. Some series are most likely dead(sometimes with a very unpleasant revival) like Dungeon Keeper, and I´m pretty sure we will never see any new part of the classic Westwood series(Kyrandia, Lands of Lore).
What I also dislike that most today games have become too shiny. I miss the grim feeling of games from the first half of the 90ties. Even if there are new games they are often too colourful stuff(Diablo III, again bleh). Also I want a game really to feel like a game, not an interactive movie. I´m tired of seeing nonsense like lens flare effects or pseudo-realistic moving protagonists. Or overdramatic battle music when a fight is about to start. Or a streamlined story/setting to appease political correctness and SJW.
Dark Souls might be one expection and one of the most interesting series from the last years. Still, it´s only one gaming series. Would be nice to have more.
Starker on 29/5/2018 at 23:17
The STALKER series is pretty amazing and highly replayable, especially with mods. I also imagine I will revisit New Vegas at least as many times as the original games. Right now, though, there are too many amazing new games on my backlog. For example, Frostpunk has just been this black hole where free time gets sucked up with no chance of escape. I have already had to pull two all-nighters because I lost track of time and played until morning. And that's no picnic at my age.
McTaffer on 30/5/2018 at 00:45
Quote Posted by Udo
Some series are most likely dead(sometimes with a very unpleasant revival) like Dungeon Keeper.
The newest "real" Dungeon Keeper game (the mobile one) is a farce. I can't speak to the Dungeons series, as I haven't played it, but War for the Overworld may as well be Dungeon Keeper 3 (okay, Dungeon Keeper 2.5). Sure it's not "real" Dungeon Keeper, but the feel is there. The atmosphere, the story, and the acting (especially Richard Ridings's performance) make it feel like a true successor. Bullfrog may be dead, but the legacy lives on.
mikjames on 30/5/2018 at 02:39
Quote Posted by Udo
Really? If you like all of them, ok, but some of these games are already the stuff that mainly caters the todays casual players. (sometimes it´s surely just a matter of taste)
Oblivion was too casualised(although it was fun), but Skyrim? I can´t take a game serious where I can become archmage with zero mage stats(and then the other members still treat me like some rookie). In Oblivion I needed at least real stealth stats to solve the quests for Dark Brotherhood and Thieves.
I didn't say anything about playing Oblivion or Skyrim without mods, unless you have a masochistic streak...
Quote:
Also TDS was already a major letdown. Sure, with the reboot around it seems to ok, but it is symptomatical for the demise of classic games. At some point we had too much catering casuals, too much compromises to release games on many platforms, too polished settings.
Yes it was, mainly due to engine and console limitations, but the movement system was also clunky as hell (still is). Install TDS with the gold patch, you might find it's more enjoyable than you remember. Or perhaps I'm just nostalgic as it's the first Thief game I managed to finish when I was in middle school. Not as good as the originals, but it actually manages to improve on the formula in a few ways. Quieter tap shoes, a progressive inventory, improved ai, no large clunky sword so you were basically screwed in close combat (as it should be). Plus there are some very good fan missions for TDS that really push the engine, showing off what could have been. The Cabal is well worth playing, as is Thief's Rising.
Quote:
In general:
It´s an issue that many series suffer, even with the original developers. Diablo III was a joke compared to 1&2. Some series are most likely dead(sometimes with a very unpleasant revival) like Dungeon Keeper, and I´m pretty sure we will never see any new part of the classic Westwood series(Kyrandia, Lands of Lore).
Yeah, I recently discovered the Dungeon Keeper series and it quickly became one of my favorites. I actually enjoy DK2 significantly more than the first game, mainly due to the improved visuals and smoothness, and the personalities of the creatures. War for the Overworld is alright, but it seems like it is missing something in the visual and audible presentation that made DK2 so enjoyable. Can't comment on Diablo, I've never had much interest in that sort of game.
Quote:
What I also dislike that most today games have become too shiny. I miss the grim feeling of games from the first half of the 90ties. Even if there are new games they are often too colourful stuff(Diablo III, again bleh). Also I want a game really to feel like a game, not an interactive movie. I´m tired of seeing nonsense like lens flare effects or pseudo-realistic moving protagonists. Or overdramatic battle music when a fight is about to start. Or a streamlined story/setting to appease political correctness and SJW.
Yeah, I tend to disable lens flare and dof effects, but I'm going to have to disagree with your mocap criticism, particularly as Thief 1 & 2 feature some rather revolutionary (at the time) motion capture technology ;)
Quote:
Dark Souls might be one expection and one of the most interesting series from the last years. Still, it´s only one gaming series. Would be nice to have more.
I made a list for you bro, at this point your just being subjective and needlessly throwing turds. You are allowed to remain in the 90's, it's okay, no one is going to take away your woodgrain 486 and crt monitor grandpa ;)
(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbjYkPKRm-8)
Naked on 30/5/2018 at 15:00
Quote Posted by mikjames
I made a list for you bro, at this point your just being subjective and needlessly throwing turds. You are allowed to remain in the 90's, it's okay, no one is going to take away your woodgrain 486 and crt monitor grandpa ;)
(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbjYkPKRm-8)
Haha! I pretty much had the exact PC in the video you linked. It was a Quantex Pentium (586) 90 MHz from 1993 and cost around $4,400 back then or ~$7,500 today. Still needed the Voodoo PCI card to get 3D acceleration, another ~$500 adjusted for 2018. I remember pressing the "turbo" button and the digital display would go from "90" MHz to "110" MHz. Cragscleft still took 2-3 minutes to load though. No thanks, let those nostalgic moments remain in the past where they exist. The ability to load any level in under 5 seconds and also thanks to this great community of taffers I can play Thief in 3440x1440, which is more immersive than any superior "black level" offered up by a Trinitron CRT. Besides, my eyes are getting older and I think going back to a CRT screen would make the strain on my eyes worse. To hell with any "purist" of the old ways, the truth is we are so much better off today it is not even funny. When people deny this fact in respect to the obvious benefits offered through technological advancement and what has come of this community and all its tweaks and development of FM's in time, etc., therein lies the true "Golden Age" fallacy. This series has aged for the better.
mikjames on 30/5/2018 at 15:39
Quote Posted by Naked
Haha! I pretty much had the exact PC in the video you linked. It was a Quantex Pentium (586) 90 MHz from 1993 and cost around $4,400 back then or ~$7,500 today. Still needed the Voodoo PCI card to get 3D acceleration, another ~$500 adjusted for 2018. I remember pressing the "turbo" button and the digital display would go from "90" MHz to "110" MHz. Cragscleft still took 2-3 minutes to load though. No thanks, let those nostalgic moments remain in the past where they exist. The ability to load any level in under 5 seconds and also thanks to this great community of taffers I can play Thief in 3440x1440, which is more immersive than any superior "black level" offered up by a Trinitron CRT. Besides, my eyes are getting older and I think going back to a CRT screen would make the strain on my eyes worse. To hell with any "purist" of the old ways, the truth is we are so much better off today it is not even funny. When people deny this fact in respect to the obvious benefits offered through technological advancement and what has come of this community and all its tweaks and development of FM's in time, etc., therein lies the true "Golden Age" fallacy. This series has aged for the better.
I'm not that old, but I like his stuff. My first machine was an Amd K6-2 500, I unfortunately never figured out what 3d acceleration was when I was a kid, I was always peeved that I couldn't play Thief Dark Project on anything other than software mode, and Thief 2 dropped the software mode :p
Udo on 30/5/2018 at 17:36
Quote Posted by McTaffer
The newest "real" Dungeon Keeper game (the mobile one) is a farce. I can't speak to the Dungeons series, as I haven't played it, but War for the Overworld may as well be Dungeon Keeper 3 (okay, Dungeon Keeper 2.5). Sure it's not "real" Dungeon Keeper, but the feel is there. The atmosphere, the story, and the acting (especially Richard Ridings's performance) make it feel like a true successor. Bullfrog may be dead, but the legacy lives on.
That was what I referred as "unpleasant revival". This mobile game is - mildy said - a joke.
Dungeons, I got Dungeons 2 for free on GOG, but have to say I´m not that pleased with it. Too much overdone humour(the narrator is the same as from the Stanley Parable - while he was funny there in Dungeons 2 he is just annoying) and gameplay-wise also not that good.
WftO is in my Steam library - haven´t tested it yet, but seems promising.
Quote Posted by mikjames
I didn't say anything about playing Oblivion or Skyrim without mods, unless you have a masochistic streak...
LOL
I think Oblivion with Shivering Isles can be fun regardless of mods or not. Skyrim...well, I haven´t touched it now for some years. And I guess you can´t mod a rather soso main storyline.
Quote Posted by mikjames
Yes it was, mainly due to engine and console limitations, but the movement system was also clunky as hell (still is). Install TDS with the gold patch, you might find it's more enjoyable than you remember. Or perhaps I'm just nostalgic as it's the first Thief game I managed to finish when I was in middle school. Not as good as the originals, but it actually manages to improve on the formula in a few ways. Quieter tap shoes, a progressive inventory, improved ai, no large clunky sword so you were basically screwed in close combat (as it should be). Plus there are some very good fan missions for TDS that really push the engine, showing off what could have been. The Cabal is well worth playing, as is Thief's Rising.
I know about the Gold patch, especially the removal of load zones is a good thing.
For me TDS was and will be always some kind of disappointment - some things are likable, but overall it feels too limited.
Quote Posted by mikjames
Yeah, I recently discovered the Dungeon Keeper series and it quickly became one of my favorites. I actually enjoy DK2 significantly more than the first game, mainly due to the improved visuals and smoothness, and the personalities of the creatures. War for the Overworld is alright, but it seems like it is missing something in the visual and audible presentation that made DK2 so enjoyable. Can't comment on Diablo, I've never had much interest in that sort of game.
Well, then it is a matter of taste again. I never liked DK2 that much, like many games from that period it suffers from horrible first generation 3D graphics. But´s that is the lesser evil - I never liked the overdone humour and how some creatures were changed, others removed.
DK1 OTOH is one of my all-time favourites - and with the masses of fan campaigns and maps(some of them relying on original bugs, like Ancient Keeper) and still working on the FX mod a longtime fun.
Hack & Slay might not be everyones genre, that´s ok. Mostly it´s appealing for people that want to collect a lot of items and level their character up to L100. For me Torchlight is a spiritual successor of Diablo 1 - it´s not as grim and the different is as well, different, but some of the original Diablo creators are involved.
Quote Posted by mikjames
Yeah, I tend to disable lens flare and dof effects, but I'm going to have to disagree with your mocap criticism, particularly as Thief 1 & 2 feature some rather revolutionary (at the time) motion capture technology ;)
Maybe my post was a bit misunderstandable(as english is not my native language), but my main concern is the movement of newer games. See the reboot - I actually don´t want the players view to shake when moving or running. Some might find that appealing - not me.
Quote Posted by mikjames
I made a list for you bro, at this point your just being subjective and needlessly throwing turds. You are allowed to remain in the 90's, it's okay, no one is going to take away your woodgrain 486 and crt monitor grandpa ;)
(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbjYkPKRm-8)
Your interpretation of my post is a bit on the wrong side :ebil: Also I never wrote I only play 90ties games - I stated that for me the first decade(especially the first half of it) had a lot of great games(and of course there was also garbage in the 90ties as well!). And that some indie games of the last years are a nice addition to the gaming world. But comparing the eras I rarely see any innovation. Just my opinion.
I ditched CRTs forever in 2004 - be sure that this one thing I don´t miss from that era(and my eyes neither).
