FMs - Ghost/Perfect Thief Results (Part 9) [SPOILERS]

Galaer on 8/5/2023 at 19:06

GARRETT'S YOUNG YEARS EXTRA

MISSION 1

Reported by Hexameron and Peter Smith as failure, because:

1. Cannot steal necessary loot without triggering a script that puts two AI on alert who subsequently instigate a battle with other AI.

In original version you were forced to get 3700 loot out of 3872, so getting loot from Pagan Temple was necessary. In new version you need to get 3500 loot out of 4200, so you can skip it. There are also some differences in gameplay or even layout of the map. This makes it possible to ghost this mission. I really wanted to try old version, but it's no longer available, but I suspect it would still be impossible to ghost.

So let's start with problematic loot. First one are 2 outside guards around mansion. One near pool requires to mantle on wall and then strafe jump on roof. Return path requires stacking 3 healing potions to mantle on roof. Here you need to be careful, there are some spots on roof that will make these 2 guards automatically go into search mode even though roof doesn't make any noise when stepped on. For guard warning us to not go to mansion I mantle on wall on the other side of portcullis and drop near him to steal his purse. To escape you just run past him and he will just start his warning speech. Also don't read note near monster cells. It triggers objective to kill beasts. They are neutral to us, but not to guards, so if freed they will go attack guards. That's infighting. But if you kill them, guard will see their body and alert. So this objective can't be triggered.

Monastery has weird problem with female novice in priestess room. When you open door priestess will 1st alert and novice will run away. So that's alert, isn't it? Running away AI usually alerts other AI on their path, but not this time. She runs to barracks with couple of Hammerites, but doesn't alert anyone. She just stand and after couple of seconds returns to priestess room. So I opened door again and this time novice not escape. I closed door and opened it again. Still nothing, so I guess her escape was just scripted. So I entered again and picked priestess' purse and left. She didn't alert. I went to loot priest's room and returned to corridor to find out novice searching for me. So she has proper search mode and it's very delayed. So I reloaded and this time when she started returning from barracks I saved and reloaded, so she stood up if front of barracks. This way I could easily loot both rooms and leave. This woman is weird. I didn't notice any mention about that in reports, so I guess this is a new problem in new version.

Haunt at the cemetery runs towards loot I stole, so after picking one I need to quickly run away and haunt will stop a bit past of loot. I pick up hammer first, escape and then vase and escape again. Patroller doesn't alert to haunt.

Last problem is of course Pagan Temple. This time there is no Pagans, so after taking gems there is no infighting. Gems has been moved closer near portcullis. After taking it treebeast run closer to location of gems, sprite is going there after reload. So after grabbing gems I need to jump out of stash and run to tunnel before running treebeast will block my path.

STATS:

Time: 1:45:52; Loot: 4075/4200
Pockets Picked: 13/14; Locks Picked: 7
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 2/2

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: POSSIBLE

MISSION 4 - ORDEAL

Mission reported by Hexameron as a failure, because:

1. Cannot enter hole in abandoned house without alerting the tiny spider.
2. Cannot exit thieves hideout without alerting a zombie blocking the path.
(3). If one initiates the "new objective" to free the people from the Hammerite compound, killing multiple undead becomes necessary.

From what I noticed the only difference in this mission is lower amount of loot (1000) instead of 1360 in older version. Mask is possible to grab, because you can douse incense, slowly go to doorway and then run past haunt. There is purse on body behind zombie looking at entrance of house worth 25 and it must be skipped, because undead in this mission illuminate area around them. In monastery is fight between undead and Hammerites.

As for objectives - I also skipped objective of freeing people from monastery. Next I did staff objective, so when I reach loot requirement mission ends. For me it was possible to get into spider's room through hole. You can also return there from other side by roping up on small wooden ledge under hole. This way you can skip going past skeleton and dealing with unavoidable zombie.

STATS:

Time: 0:35:22; Loot: 855/1000
Pockets Picked: 2/2; Locks Picked: 0
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Bodies Discovered by Enemies: 1
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE. Must skip purse on body (worth 25) in house behind zombie looking at entrance.

Galaer on 8/5/2023 at 19:07

GHOST TOWN

Mission reported by Hexameron as failure, because:

-Cannot sneak into church without setting off a trigger that creates a flashbomb explosion, which damages and alerts the apparitions inside.

With new mantle it's possible to avoid flash effect by jumping on top of door and to leave you must drop from door far enough. Though I think this invisible trigger activating flash effect could be excused. Other than that are spiders - they look with their back, but when they turn their vision also turns. So when they turn for one second go quickly along left wall. The same do with 4 small spiders in sewers. Invisible ghost can be past by strafe running along left wall. As for grave with House key and nasty gas mine trap you can descend very low without falling into grave and grab key.

STATS:

Time: 0:16:38; Loot: 440/440
Pockets Picked: 0/0; Locks Picked: 0
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: SUCCESS

Galaer on 8/5/2023 at 19:08

THE HASHISHANS

Mission failed by Hexameron, because:

1. Must prevent a prisoner from dying (objective) by using a gas arrow on him
2. Cannot sneak by turret in corridor

This mission gave me a lot of problem. First run went really smooth, but at the end I realized that mission can't be finished. And afterwards it was donwards spiral that frustrated me a lot, but finally I got a successful run.

So these 2 busts are pretty much one situation. What Hexameron didn't notice is you can disable turret by using switch in it's niche twice. Readable says that turret activates when entering from south side, so I'm going to go there later from north side and also release Hashishans at the end of mission. There is also problem noted by Hexameron - in main block it's possible for archer to notice prisoners and shoot them.

FIRST RUN

So first I'm going for weapons and for that I need to nudge engineer forward to get lockpicks and moss arrows. Then I'm going behind stationary Mechanist to steal Main Block key from patroller and also douse 2 torches near prisoners, so archer will not see them. Then I returned to starting cell and unlock right door to loot room with book. Just like Hexameron I'm going to skip objective of freeing treebeast. Then I'm going to 2nd floor and rope up to wooden beam at the top. Here I can disable watcher and use secret wall to rope down to guard post for Recreation key. I returned to starting cell and this time open cell door. I ran to right corner and went right to Recreation area on 2nd floor. Here in dining room and kitchen I douse every gas torch. Sadly I can't steal lady's ring unless I KO her, so this 100 loot must be skipped. I mossed floor and quickly run behind wall to turn off light (use switch twice. Then I go right and again douse all 3 gas torches. Here is Sleeping Quarters key and Basement key. I need to nudge woman forward to get to elevator leading to basement.

Here I experienced some problems. Elevator is in basement and "up" button key doesn't work. But I need water arrows from basement, so I do very precise shot of moss arrow into "up" button in basement. In corridor I need to douse 2 gas torches and moss metal floor to run quickly inside generator room, because here is metal gear. I also managed to get gas arrow. Continuing to guard post I noticed first sign of upcoming problems - cop is running into double door, but doesn't open it even if it's unlocked. I can open it for him, but this shouldn't be happening. On stairs I can hide in dark corner from knight. Then I enter blue block where Hashshans are imprisoned.

I doused gas torch near guard post and freed Hashishans, but they don't escape. Why? Because they are dead. I can't complete objective of freeing them. Looks like inactive turret somehow kills them at some point. This means this objective is on unknown to me time limit. I also approached turret from north side and I found out that it still activates. So readable lied. This means I'm going to excuse this invisible trigger based on proximity, because I need to free Hashishans as quickly as possible. It's annoying to restart ghost run after one hour of playing, but it must be done.

EVERYTHING IS FALLING APART

OK, so I got my weapons, doused 2 torches near prisoners and when I was on beam after retrieving Recreation key archer spotted prisoners and alerted everyone in main block, so suddenly it was hard to move, because patroller from 1st floor went to 2nd floor and stopped there. Everyone became more sensitive. I tried reload mission couple of times, but archer always spot prisoner in NE cell and is angry that he can't get him. He doesn't shoot though unlike what Hexameron wrote in his report. So I decided to restart the whole mission, but the same thing happened.

I restarted run many times and eventually I could get spotted by stationary Mechanist while trying to steal Main Block key or even couple of times on wooden beam. In the end I ignored Recreation key and also doused 3rd torch on wooden pillar near cell. It helped a bit. From wooden beam I could drop to 2nd floor on north side, go behind archer and drop near entrance to blue block where was problematic turret. But when dealing with it I heard alert from guard in main block. It wasn't because they heard turret hitting prisoner, but it was from archer spotting prisoner again! What's worst now he started shooting at him. So I reloaded game again and this time I also doused another torch on other wooden pillar.

SUCCESSFUL RUN

Cop in post isn't any problem. As for turret you must get closer to it without getting spotted by it and lean right to use switch twice and disable it. Prisoner will get hurt a bit, but he should survive 2 shots. Prisoners are neutral to us and because shots happened on prisoners nobody hears them. Then I douse gas torch and free Hashishans. They leave Pit key. In pit is more loot, but like Hexameon I decided to skip it. About pit - going to arena opens monster cells. It's invisible trigger, so it's excused if monsters will attack because of that guards. I didn't check it out. In arena is fight, which happens on it's own, but it alerts drunken knight. You can still quickly go to him and steal bottle and return to shadow and then after fight douse torches to try to retrieve 3 diamonds from down there. But I was simply too tired with all these fails and restarts. I also skipped nugget from spider cell, which is available after it's opened. You can nudge spiders to get to it. Ultimately I skip 450 loot from pit.

So my route has changed, I took Basement key from knight patrolling stairs and went to basement for metal gear. I mossed elevator to ride up to bar. I needed to 1st alert cops in order to douse gas torch, but woman became more sensitive, so nudging her was harder than before. I also needed to move slowly to not alert her and mantle on table to douse 2 gas torches in other room. I don't go through kitchen, so I can just enter, get loot and return to corridor. Next are sleeping quarters and I can get through them to interrogation room. In quarters is secret route leading back to blue block with turrets, so I can use it to return to main block.

Here I noticed that archer spotted prisoner and he's angry at him, but he doesn't alert others and doesn't shoot, so it's fine. Here I got secret on wooden beam and in bot hangar, then returned to blue block to escape outside. In my test run here was cop and knight, but now there is only cop and I don't know why. I 1st alert cops near campfire, so I will douse it and run to get their purse. Patrolling Mechanist has another gear. I also go around to steal woman's purse and complete loot objective. All I need to do is exit, which is nearby.

STATS:

Time: 0:29:24; Loot: 3082/3732
Pockets Picked: 15/26; Locks Picked: 8
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 5/5

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE. You must skip ring worth 100 loot, because it requires to KO lady in dining room. I also skipped 450 loot from pit, though I think it's possible to get it.

Galaer on 8/5/2023 at 19:10

HAMMERITE'S BRUTALITY

Mission reported by RiCh and Vanguard as a failure, because:

- Need to bash a door down, which alerts the nearby AI.
- Extinguishing a torch alerts AI, no other way around the problem.

Problem #1 took me some time to find this wooden door, because most of doors are metal. So I guess they both are talking about wooden trapdoor leading from attic to marble corridor patrolled by knight. And if that's the case, then this problem is really classic. You encounter wooden door, you use lockpicks and keys on it and it doesn't open. You search the whole mission for keys and they don't work, so you search for switch and there is none of them. So you are forced to bash trapdoor and you don't realize that it's unlocked and you just need to frob to open it. That's funny.

Problem #2 isn't hard either. True dousing torch will always alert woman and knight even if you 1st alert them first. It's still pretty easy to get red key from knight. Just crouch and approach pair from side. You will still be in their blind spot, so you can lean forward and steal key. That's all.

STATS:

Time: 0:17:33; Loot: 1290/1290
Pockets Picked: 4/6; Locks Picked: 2
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 0/0

GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: SUCCESS

Galaer on 8/5/2023 at 19:10

THE HIDDEN STONE

Mission reported by Hexameron as a failure, because:

- Cannot kill "Greed", "Wrath", "Sloth", "Envy" and "Pride" without alerting them

After reading book Greed spawns in front of you and tried to kill you. That's a ghost bust #1. I used flashbomb to KO him and then kill him. Wrath and Sloth are in sewers. Wrath is looking towards entrance, but Sloth is looking away. You need to act fast. First you drop flashbomb and quickly drop down to Ko Wrath (he's blinded for very short time), then you run to KO Sloth before she will alert to sound of falling body. This way you only blinded Wrath (ghost bust #2). Kill them.

Gluttony, Lust and Envy can be easily KO-ed and killed. Envy is looking in random direction after killing servant, but you can reset it by reading book summoning sins again. Pride is more tricky. Crouch, go on right side of door, prepare broadhead arrow, quickly lean left, shoot and hide your head. Pride will die in one hit. Hexameron mentioned that after getting stone Father is entering in scripted full alert, but that's not true. He's alerting, because he sees us, so you must faster hide in shadow. No need to KO him, just steal his key and exit.

STATS:

Time: 0:10:42; Loot: 120/885
Pockets Picked: 2/2; Locks Picked: 0
Back Stabs: 3; Knock Outs: 6
Damage Dealt: 158; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 1; Others killed: 6
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 0/1

GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE

klatremus on 9/5/2023 at 00:07

Game: Thief 2
FM: Patriot, Mission 1: Marauder

Ghost - Failed
Perfect Thief - Failed
Supreme Ghost - Failed
Perfect Supreme - Failed
Time - 1:05:52
Loot - 3499/3499
Pockets Picked - 6/10
Secrets - 5/5
Locks Picked - 5
Backstabs - 0, Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0, Other Kills - 0, Bodies Discovered - 0
Consumables - 1 Broadhead Arrow
Bodies Discovered by Enemies: 2

See the entire report with screenshots (https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot1.htm) here!
Loot list (https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot1_L.htm) here.
YouTube let's play (https://youtu.be/5V3bufK8a0k) here!

Comments:
I had thought about trying a mission of Zontik’s for a long time. Although I’ve heard mixed reviews of this monster campaign, most of the negative comments are with respect to its difficulty, which for me normally isn’t a drawback. This first mission showcases Zontik’s unique, but mesmerizing style right away. The random battles might put some players off, but the design and puzzle elements exude high quality all the way.

I had to get 3,000 worth of loot in order to pay my rent, that was it as far as objectives. Problem was, only 3,499 existed in the mission, including six items worth 500 each. I thus had to get all six of those items and therein lay the problem. More on that later. The largest problem all across town was all the random battles. I could replay them a few times to see the various outcomes, but there was still a lot of unpredictability. Quite a few players have criticized this aspect in the forums. I didn’t mind it that much.

West
The western section of town wasn’t difficult at all. The bot in the starting alley could get lured into the battles by the church, in which case it usually killed the participants closer to the storage building. This was a good thing, as it made traversing this area easier. It was impossible to move farther east from here. At least six guards were involved in an endless fight. There was a purse on a dead hammerite here to obtain, but that I could take the from the staircase outside the gardener’s (image below). With a bit of luck, I could crouch-run up while the fighters were busy and grab it by standing up, then quickly ducking again. The good thing about enemies already involved in a fight is that a bust is the same for Supreme and regular Ghost. If they alerted to me, they would leave their current fight and chase me; quite easy to detect. If not, I was in the clear, no matter how visible I seemed to be.

Inline Image:

https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot1_files/image001.jpg

I moved south next. The area surrounding Captain Pam’s was strange. Two pivoting city watch guards stood right by the canal. They did scripted search maneuvers, but didn’t always first alert. Sometimes they just gave settling remarks. I crossed the wooden plank when they looked away, then snuck over to the boat to get the captain’s key. Had to move slow and time the other pivoting guard by the gate to the north. He alerted like normal, but was farther away. Inside the residence, the captain heard me opening the door to his chambers (image below). I had to get the diamond from his safe to reach the loot goal, so this Supreme bust was inevitable. Returned the key to the boat afterwards.

Inline Image:

https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot1_files/image002.jpg

The plaza around the inn had to be accessed through the gate north of Pam’s house. The other way in was guarded by a stationary iron beast outside Dr. Elves’ place. The best way I found to get to the gate without getting caught was by sneaking in behind the guard as he faced east, then mantle the lamp and drop down on the other side as he swung west (first image below). By the inn a big fight was already underway (second image below). There was a wooden gate further east, and occasionally the fighting guards ended up on the other side, in the fountain plaza. This was not desirable, as there was no way for them to die over there. On this side, they could end up close to one of the fires and die from the flames. The lit doorway close to the wooden gate had the greatest chance of impacting them. I needed a purse worth 500 from one of the city watch guards. I could grab the drill bit from the ruins west of here without getting spotted.

Inline Image:

https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot1_files/image003.jpg

Inline Image:

https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot1_files/image004.jpg

I replayed the fight about 3-4 times, saving as I went along. The best situation was if a few of the same type of guards died together. This happened to the mechanists in my case. After about 15 minutes, three city watch guards remained with all of the mechanists dead or fleeing. The remaining guards then went to hunt mode, which meant they had a much higher chance of accidentally ending up in the fire. Before not too long, they also succumbed to the flames (image below). I imagine this fight could have an infinite amount of outcomes, and I considered my result fairly fortunate. It meant I could even grab the bag of goods from the ruins just north of here. That was the last piece of loot in this area, so I headed south again and took the high route, approaching the church from the south.

Inline Image:

https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot1_files/image005.jpg

Luckily, the fights here were contained closer to the church, so I could head down to Dr. Elves’ house unseen. Grabbed the loot here and behind the big stationary bot. Then headed to the apartment marked X to the north. I had to enter this one in order to reach the loot goal. This required breaking of the boards to the basement (image below). This was an inevitable Ghost bust. The loot from the church contribution box I could take if waiting for the fights to move south a bit. I sprinted into the corner and if the guards didn’t run my way, I was good.

Inline Image:

https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot1_files/image006.jpg

East
The intended way of getting to the eastern section was by using a catapult to blow open the wooden gate leading to the fountain plaza. This was property damage, and although that mode had already busted, I wanted to reduce the number of busts to a minimum. I found a predictable way across with a difficult jump to Klaus Schmidt’s windowsill (image below). The best way was from atop the staircase below the garden. I could also hop from a burning building to the west, but that required dousing the flames first.

Inline Image:

https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot1_files/image007.jpg

Since all the fighters from the fountain plaza had perished from the previous fight, this part of town was now very quiet, almost eerily so. In my last playthrough, that wasn’t the case, so now I could observe the guards here on their intended patrol routes. A tough piece of loot was in a hidden apartment northwest of the bridge. A stationary swordsman guarded the archway, so I had to use an overhang to fool him (mage below). Luckily, he didn’t first alert, he only went straight to hunt mode, so that made it possible to avoid Supreme busts. To get back up, I used a rope arrow into the wall of the nearby shed, close enough so I could retrieve it from above after. Nice move this. On my second playthrough when recording for YouTube, this guard did normal first alerts, so I could no longer get the vase for Supreme. I assume he was in a constant first alert state during my first playthrough from being alerted by nearby fights.

Inline Image:

https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot1_files/image008.jpg

The final hurdle was getting into the floodgate caretaker’s residence. The last piece of loot worth 500 was a silver gear on the top floor. There was a small open window just next to it, and I attempted every conceivable way of frobbing the gear through that window, but to no avail. I used a speed potion from a nearby balcony to see if I could reach it. I activated a different inventory item to see if it decreased in size during the jump even. If it did, it meant that the gear highlighted from the outside, but it never did. I also tried this method from atop a rope arrow on the other side of the wall to the east. The gear’s frob distance seemed normal, so I thought maybe this would be possible. But alas, it wasn’t. I ended up breaking the glass with a broadhead (image below), then climbing in with a rope arrow when the nearby guard was looking away. I alerted at least two other guards close by also. This honestly seemed like a cheap move from Zontik, forcing the player to break a window right next to a stationary guard. I have never seen this guard involved in fights either, so I don’t think it would ever leave this part of town.

Inline Image:

https://www.klatremus.org/Patriot1_files/image009.jpg

Notes:
- Got a first alert from Captain Pam when opening the door to his bedroom. Supreme bust.
- Had to break boards to enter the northern apartment marked with an X on the map. Ghost bust.
- Had to break a window to enter the floodgate caretaker’s. This is property damage, plus it alerted at least three guards to hunt mode. Ghost busts.
- The two bodies discovered are from the scripted fights throughout the city. Nothing to do with me.

klatremus on 9/5/2023 at 00:25

Nice work on those reports, Galaer!

I have a question for you. In your report for Patriot mission 2, you excuse the bust of alerting the guard by the opening cell when trying to steal his key because it is a part of the 'escape from your cell' objective. I am a bit confused, because you said me cutting the bar in the cell in Heartcliff Islands should be a bust when it is exactly the same situation, to complete the 'escape from prison' objective. I know that was among the very first missions you ghosted, so perhaps your way of interpreting the ghost rules have changed. I was just curious to hear your comparison between those missions. In my opinion, if the Heartcliff Islands situation is a bust, then second alerting the guard in Patriot most definitely is one also.

Galaer on 9/5/2023 at 06:08

Quote Posted by klatremus

First of all, it was my 2nd report, so I was a bit inexperienced with rules and I just assumed that this alert is scripted, because normally guards don't alert like that to grabbing their keys. I also replayed mission not long ago and noticed that normally guard will launch alarm if you don't create electrocution setup, but if you have setup there will be no alarm. No idea why rules would be changed. Also electrocution is needed to complete objective while in Heartcliff Islands objective gets completed in a completely different area. If there would be escape from cell objective completed directly after cutting bar and escaping from cell I would probably not call it a bust. But you need to escape from the whole prison, not just cell.

klatremus on 9/5/2023 at 14:06

Yeah I agree the electrocution isn't a bust, nor turning off the lights for Supreme, because they are immediate and unavoidable consequences of completing that objective, and like you said the objective gets checked off then. But alerting the guard first from pickpocketing him is not part of the objective. If guards are cranked up to max alertness, they could alert like that.

Galaer on 9/5/2023 at 14:36

Quote Posted by klatremus

I don't know, I never encountered this kind of alert other than from grabbing key after AI seen us. But there is shadow in cell, so you can hide from him and try to pick it when he's looking away. Also I don't understand why it makes difference for him if electrocution setup is prepared (talking about alarm situation). Ultimately it matters less as there is no way to ghost this mission anyway.