Galaer on 7/8/2022 at 11:36
DURANT
Mission has been reported by Vanguard, dafydd and goldsla as a failure. None of them could ghost killing golden child, but dafydd mentioned that this objective could potentially be skipped. So that's what I decided to try. But during my ghost run I realized that there is ghost bust they didn't notice. I'm going to mention it later.
You can't KO anybody and loot objective is pretty tight. Many doors will automatically close behind you like it is some haunted place. Enemies can 2nd alert to sound of picking the lock (I had problem with that during my test run on Normal difficulty, but on Expert doors requires key instead of lockpicks. So Expert is actually easier than Normal in this matter. Also there are problems with conversations. If AI will not go to their final destinations after conversation, after reload they can return to where conversation occurred and restart it. This can be annoying especially about 1st conversation near start point, because when entering police station woman is blocked by cop and can't go to cell. This means that after every reload she's going to return to starting point and later we will have business in this area, so it will be annoying.
TO MANOR
First I go to safe house for equipment and square lockpick, then I climb to small roof and go via ledge to hotel's window. This way I avoid traps and easily get my blackjack and triangle lockpick. This completes first objective and spawn ghost. Now ghosters go to mechanist church, but I'm going to go there at the end of mission. Now I go to 2nd roof and through chimney I go to pub and sewers. Here I need to steal Crypt key from haunt and go to crypt. Taking left goblet in 1st room spawns falling skull, so patrolling zombies should be in 2nd room. Talk with ghost and enter manor through basement.
MANOR
Looting basement is easy. I enter 1st floor through kitchen. Then I douse all gas torches. Other ghosters reported that this is useless as enemies will relight them, but in my run only servant relight one of gas torches and after reload nobody tried to relight gas torches. So it's not a waste of water arrows after all. My first target is using secret elevator to go to 2nd floor, then go south and use stairs to go on 3rd floor to lever that disables watchers. Unlike alarm switch this lever has no 15 min time limit. The rest of manor is pretty simple, but I need to exit via meeting room (though I think warehouse door is safer) to outside to get loot from NE and SE part of manor. Then I return to crypt and get informed about conversation in caterer. I need to go there, but if woman from 1st conversation isn't in cell in police station, she can walk in front of restaurant. Inside restaurant you must turn off light and hide behind pillar. Wait for objective completion. This also completes correspondence objective. I only took one envelope out of 4 from file room in manor, but eavesdropping completed this objective anyway. So I wonder if I need to gather any envelope.
MECHANIST CHURCH
Last door leads to Mechanist warehouse, but there is watcher observing entrance. For the same reason I can't use front entrance and sewer door requires Sewer key that is located in Mechanist chapel. So looks like I need to use invisibility potion to enter warehouse. Weird that none of other ghosters mentioned that in their reports. 2nd floor via stairs leads to bedroom and in one of them is manor map and book that triggers kill objective. I don't need any, so I will skip them. Go to elevator and go to basement. Go left and use conveyor belt to trigger conversation and get ore, which you drop into 1st machine and return to end of conveyor belt for Gear Template that drops into 2nd machine.
Now I need to go to chapel. On Normal metal mask Mechanist will stay at the bottom of stairs, on Expert he goes to altar in chapel and stays there. There is patrolling stairs Mechanist. To avoid them I climbed upstairs and from metal steps I strafe jumped and mantled to stone railing above stairs. It turned out unnecessary, because metal helmet Mechanist actually turns. Here i need to take Golden Cog from altar and Sewer key and loot from safe in SW corner of chapel. Then go to basement and use elevator to go to 2nd floor.
Here is neutral monkey in cage. Every previous ghoster ignored it, goldsla even classified it as rats and plants, because it doesn't alert anyone. But there is nobody to alert. Monkey doesn't alert to us jumping on metal floor and running, but if you drop key on metal floor, shoot arrow into wall or trigger explosion, it will go into search mode. It was discussed not long ag that this is a bust. Explosion is triggered by using code to open gear pressing machine and take gear and monkey 2nd alerts to that. And that's not the only thing, because explosion triggered by us is damage property. Friend Automation in his diary wrote that he sabotaged this machine, so whenever some one will use it, machine will cease to function. And that's why explosion happens. Are there any visible damage then? Yes, some buttons don't work. You can't use code again, because button #2 doesn't work anymore. So if you don't use ore and template in basement and use code, you are going to softlock your progress. In other words using code leads to ghost bust #1. And you can't grab gear through door. I wonder if it teleports after using code.
After leaving the room wall on 1st floor is guard post will slide and reveal golden child. Golden child is going to patrol 1st floor and basement. To avoid using invisibility potion I left through red door in basement and lock it behind me. Now you just need to go to Grimworth and de Perrin Fine Relics near safe house. You don't need to enter 1st room on 2nd floor, it requires lockpicks and it 2nd alert Grimworth. Weird that other ghosters managed to enter this room without triggering alert. Safe on 1st floor near hooks can be opened through painting. Now you just need to take all loot and go to safe house.
STATS:
Time: 1:11:23; Loot: 2807/2807
Pockets Picked: 8/17; Locks Picked: 6
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Bodies Discovered by Enemies: 1 (?)
Secrets: 0/0
GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE
FINAL NOTES
I have no idea why Body Discovery stat shows up. I didn't kill anyone. Actually I checked the whole Mechanist church and everyone including golden child is alive. I did some research and I discovered that this happening after you leave 2nd floor room after explosion. It's not directly after explosion, but directly after golden child will leave his hideout. Other ghosters didn't have this problem, so I have no idea what's going on.
I was puzzled by lack of info about usage of invisibility potion in other reports, so I used walkthrough to check if it mentions. And I learned about another way in. Apparently window above hangar door is frobbable. I never realized that, because this window looks like background window. So it's possible to not use invisibility potion.
Also I had an idea (never checked if it's doable though) how to kill golden child in case I will be forced to trigger this objective. Before explosion go to guard post where wall passage is located and block it with 3 crates. Wall slides to the side inside wall, so it will not bump into crates and not make noise. I also need to turn off light. After explosion just go quickly into guard post and kill golden child. It will stay in dark spot of his hideout and his body shouldn't be discovered.
Galaer on 7/8/2022 at 11:37
THE INVERTED MANSE
This mission has 3 completely different difficulties, so I'm gonna play them all. Since previous report made by Vanguard was played on hardest Warrior difficulty, I'm going start with it, then move to middle difficulty and end with easiest difficulty. On Warrior difficulty is optional objective to kill 3 guardians. Reward is just 3 special potions. I don't know about apparition and burrick rider, but haunt can't be killed in one hit even with strongest weapon from vault - ballistic missiles. He gets burned slowly and he's alerted. In past it was allowed, so Vanguard reported his ghost run as success, but nowadays it's not allowed. So my plan is to skip this objective.
WARRIOR DIFFICULTY
Unlike Vanguard I had no problem with ghosting small spiders. You can frob douse light mushroom. Patrolling spider can get stuck on stone steps, but it's easy to climb up without 2nd alerting him. I had problem with ghosting infested by zombies part of town. When you enter this part of town zombie will go to tree and for some reason 2nd alert. I don't know why, but this is always happening even though I'm in good shadow. Wait for him to calm down. For me he went together with red zombie, but he's very sensitive. I went behind him to canal. Dousing torch 2nd alert him and if you are too close going to shadow on the other side of torch will 2nd alert him too. So I need to wait for him to get close to canal and quickly strafe run to shadow.
In Workers Quarters is falling ceiling with zombie on it. To avoid bust you must go quickly into passage along wall. Near area where you get War Gauntlet is poll with 2 diamonds and nearby are 2 lying zombies. While you can get diamond on the side, getting closer or trying to highlight center diamond will always wake up zombies and they will see you. I tried from every side and I even woke up zombies by bumping into them thinking that maybe they will be less sensitive, but no, this diamond is impossible to get.
There is problematic shaft in apparition guardian's room. There is wind that brings you up and you loudly drop on stone floor. To avoid that you strafe run into shaft and mantle on top of it. I doused 2 torches inside, because ghost's path is unpredictable. Also doused 2 torches near particle bridge to not get spotted by burricks. Luckily particle bridge is dark.
FINAL NOTES
Mission has bee n successfully ghosted, but in the stats there is 1 zombie killed. I didn't touched any zombie (except bumping 2 zombies to wake them up), so none of them should be dead. Of course there are some zombie parts here and there, but they aren't created by me. Maybe zombie from town alerted to corpse of a zombie, but then why his companion, red zombie, didn't alert at all. Besides if he would found corpse there would be 1 body discovered in stats and there is none (I'm surprised that body discovery stat even shows up). This all confuses me a lot. I don't know what's going on.
STATS:
Time: 0:34:56; Loot: 1744/1904
Pockets Picked: 2/2; Locks Picked: 4
Back Stabs: 0; Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Humans Killed: 0; Haunts Killed: 0
Apparitions Killed: 0; Zombies Killed: 1 (?)
Bodies Discovered by Enemies: 0
Secrets: 1/2
GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE. One diamond (worth 100 loot) in pool near 2 lying zombies is impossible to obtain.
ROGUE DIFFICULTY
Second difficulty is also the easiest difficulty. Zombie patrolling entrance to factory is still alerted and sensitive, but you can picklock front entrance and bypass him. There is no zombie falling out of ceiling. There is no diamonds in pool near lying zombies, so perfect ghost is possible. Instead of guardians are puzzles and they are easy to solve. There is purse on zombie who wakes up after grabbing it, but it's no problem as he doesn't alert. Despite having more loot we get loot slower than on Warrior difficulty. Mission still end with 1 zombie killed for some reason.
STATS:
Time: 0:25:31; Loot: 2528/2603
Pockets Picked: 2/3; Locks Picked: 3
Back Stabs: 0; Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Humans Killed: 0; Haunts Killed: 0
Apparitions Killed: 0; Zombies Killed: 1 (?)
Bodies Discovered by Enemies: 0
Secrets: 1/2
GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: POSSIBLE
CUTPURSE DIFFICULTY
First difficulty has a lot more enemies in it than on other difficulties. Despite the smallest amount of loot we get loot faster than on other difficulties. But mission isn't that hard. Entrance to factory can't be picklocked, so you must sneak past zombies to canal. Luckily zombie isn't alerted and isn't sensitive anymore, so it's not a problem. In place of ceiling zombie is zombie opening unfrobbable door, but the way to dodge him is the same.
You need to backtrack for Factory Basement key to cathedral though. This is annoying detour. To make my way faster I used elevator shaft (there is no elevator anymore). I jumped into wall, so I will bounce and catch ladder. In Superintendent Office is Factory Entrance key, so I slowly went to front entrance. To return I used elevator shaft again. This time I crouched and strafe ran to drop and and mantle to lower floor. After getting Pagan book there is no easy exit nearby like on other difficulties. Instead you need to return outside. I didn't score any kills this time. I guess it must be somehow connected to zombie in front of factory.
STATS:
Time: 0:32:16; Loot: 1304/1304
Pockets Picked: 3/3; Locks Picked: 3
Back Stabs: 0; Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Humans Killed: 0; Haunts Killed: 0
Apparitions Killed: 0; Zombies Killed: 0
Bodies Discovered by Enemies: 0
Secrets: 1/2
GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: SUCCESS
Galaer on 7/8/2022 at 11:38
HEDGEROWS AND HAMMERITE'S
Mission has been reported by Vanguard and dafydd as failure. They both mentioned that you must hit red hammer with fire arrow and it always alert guards. Since this is Thief 2 mission I thought that maybe flare could act as substitute. But something tells me it's not that easy. So, there is no flares of this mission. But during my test run after hitting red hammer with fire arrow nothing happened at first, but when I hit higher spot on red hammer, I heard click. In other words there must be hidden switch there. If it's a switch, then you can hit it with something else. And I have scouting orbs in my inventory. And it worked. It was that simple. The rest of this mission is easy.
STATS:
Time: 0:10:01; Loot: 4185/4185
Pockets Picked: 0/0; Locks Picked: 4
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 1/1
GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT GHOST: SUCCESS
klatremus on 18/8/2022 at 02:47
Game:
Thief 2FM:
Heartcliff IslandsGhost -
Failed *updated*
Perfect Thief -
FailedSupreme Ghost -
FailedPerfect Supreme -
FailedTime - 4:30:43
Loot - 3652 out of 7014 (Possible for Ghost: 6814. Possible for Supreme: 6149)
Pockets Picked - 25/27
Secrets - 13/14
Locks Picked - 12
Backstabs - N/A, Knockouts - N/A
Damage dealt - N/A, Damage taken - N/A
Healing taken - N/A, Other Kills - N/A, Bodies Discovered - N/A
Consumables - 3 Water Arrows, 1 Blood Ash Vial, 1 Holy Blood Vial
See the entire report with screenshots (
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands.htm) here!
Loot list (
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_L.htm) here.
YouTube let's play (
https://youtu.be/17OnQn2p1jM) here!
Comments:This is the last mission for Thief 2 on the current unreported list. Sort of a milestone, I guess. This is by many said to be the hardest fan mission ever made. I agree that puzzle-wise on a first playthrough, it can be very difficult. But gameplay and ghosting once you know what to do, isn't that bad. Moreover, it is an extremely well-made mission, with a unique, but clever story, plus eerie, tense places to visit. It reminds me a bit of Into the Odd, where surreal, dreamlike locations are mixed with more realistic areas. If you give it the attention it deserves, Heartcliff Islands could easily become one of the most complex, yet intriguing experiences of your Thief career. Don't let this one slip you by.
I had deliberately been thrown into Lord Edward's prison on the Heartcliff Islands, mainly in order to obtain a family heirloom known as the Foreseer. That was my only mandatory objective besides leaving the prison and escaping the islands. Optional objectives included getting my equipment back, finding Captain Heartcliff's pirate treasure, and acquiring 4,000 in loot. It's not often obtaining loot is optional. Of course, Supreme requires all objectives to be accomplished, even optional ones.
PrisonI didn't end up removing the metal rod from the cell door. It would be necessary in order to complete an optional objective that would spawn later. However, this seemed like clear property damage to me, not allowed by any Ghost mode. I could bend the rod after using the file on it, but then bend it back after escaping. This maintained the integrity of the door and nothing was actually damaged (image below). I knew this would be a Supreme bust by not fulfilling the objective, but property damage is a more serious offense.
[UPDATE: As a response to the reaction of the ghosting community, I have counted the small cut to this rod as property damage, and thus a bust to Ghost. I found you can even flip the lever in the cell block to make the door unfrobbable and thus permanently locked, but that wasn't enough to convince them this wasn't damage. I reluctantly agree.]Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image001.jpgThere were three ways out of the prison area. The western one was only possible to do for regular Ghost, but not for Supreme. I had to open the door to the control room and the guard inside heard the door and commented. I couldn't reach the lever to the main door from outside the window. If taking this exit for Ghost, you have to block one of the doors with a potion in order to escape, since the lever operates two doors simultaneously. I still wanted to take the confiscated goods key from this guard for Supreme and that I could take from outside ((
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image002.jpg) see image). Getting to this position without triggering the watcher was difficult, but I eventually found a discrepancy in the nature of the cameras that made it possible. The cameras were the old style ones from Thief 1, but they still made sounds like the mechanists watchers from Thief 2. However, their viewing angle wasn't following the light colored patch that you would expect from Thief 1. Instead it was almost 90 degrees to the right of this patch. This meant if the camera seemed to be looking straight towards me, it was actually facing somewhat to the right. Getting past this weird bug, it wasn't that tough to dodge any of them. This one by the main entrance was the hardest though, as there was only a small opening when it pivoted “north”.
There wasn't much loot in the prison overall, so it was basically just a matter of escaping. I found the Foreseer on the lower levels, controlling three haunts by magical beams. If I got close enough to it, my controls reversed; highly annoying, but a cool effect nonetheless. Each haunt had a small hammer (not loot) attached to its upper back. If I took it, a few seconds later, the haunt passed out and turned (back) into a regular guard. There was a readable outside one of the prison entrances that talked about this effect being known by the warden. For each haunt I did this to, the Foreseer dropped one level down, until eventually disappearing into the bottom lava pool. I was hoping there would be a way around this, as causing these “knockouts” to the haunts were obvious busts. I couldn't find any way into the cage with the Foreseer either, although there were three non-frobbable locks on the lowermost level. So I left the haunts patrolling for now.
I realized afterwards that I didn't need to take the confiscated goods key at all. I could instead leave via the sewers and fairly easily reach the west end of the basement after a small swim. In the sewers I also didn't need to get the key from the patroller. It worked on three of the doors here, but I wanted to leave through the drain to get the loot by the eel. In order to fool the electric eels, I had to use dried burrick pee (yeah, that's right!), but although this caused them not to attack, it still triggered a reaction. The eel hid under a wooden board until the effect wore off, then it came out looking for me. Once I realized this I understood using the burrick pee couldn't be done without busting Ghost, so I skipped the coins in the compost. I could still leave without it seeing me, I just couldn't dive down to the grate to get the loot. I only counted a bust if the eels turned or moved directly towards me, or started emitting electricity, which seemed to be more proximity based. A grotto just to the east of where I emerged took me back to the southeast staircase ((
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image003.jpg) see image). Here I could access most of the floors on the east side.
CompoundThe upper floors to the east were easy to ghost. I got the armory key from the guard captain so I could obtain my gear and especially the lockpicks. Cleaned the hospital floor and the warden's afterwards. I had to reach the warden's quarters from the balcony. A roof to the northwest was close enough to jump from (image below). There was a pivoting archer on a roof further north, but he wasn't a problem to avoid. Generally, there were many archers outside the grounds to the north and east, but there were also many patches of perfect shadows.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image004.jpgOne of the parts for the pirate key was in a locked attic above the kitchen. It could only be accessed by breaking open the shutters from the outside, using either fire arrows of the sword. This was a clear example of property damage. Sadly, not only did this mean the pair of coins in the attic had to be skipped, but also the entire pirate treasure worth 1,527 gold. Of course, I would try to find a way around it, but my hopes were not high.
[UPDATE: Huge news!! The SJS told me there is a button in the fireplace room that opens the window without having to break it (image below).]Not too far from here was a room with two sleeping maids. The loot in there also had to be skipped for Supreme, as picking the lock on the door alerted not the sleeping maids, but the awake ones in the upstairs kitchen.
[UPDATE: WheretIB2 discovered you can open this door without any alerts using the Hand of Glory. That adds 17 to the Supreme run.]Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image005.jpgOnce I visited the holy font below the guard floor chapel, I could obtain and drink the holy blood potion. This would render the status a ‘chemical success' for regular ghost, but was not allowed for Supreme. Luckily, drinking this potion only accessed a few extra loot items and some more convenient passageways, but to my knowledge is not necessary to finish the mission. Thus it was skipped for Supreme for now.
Prison AgainI now revisited the ventilation shafts in order to finish up a few things in the prison. One secret in cell block 1 was not possible to get for Supreme. I had to open up a specific cell with loose bricks in it, but I couldn't reach the cell without the control room guard seeing me. First I had to blind frob the levers through the outside window to find the right one. I could go through the back door instead but that yielded a first alert. However, I got a first alert regardless when creeping along the western wall to reach the cell (image below). There was no way to avoid this, as the torch on the wall was too bright.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image006.jpgWith the lucky hand of glory I could also now visit the scary cell on the bottom level of the prison. It turned out I didn't need it, however, as there was nothing but hints to more obscure puzzles later on, but nothing vital to pick up. I couldn't pass the weird female zombie in the back room in order to access the loot beyond anyway. In order to do that I used two vine arrows from the metal railings above (first image below). I realized later I could've done it with only one, directly from the top railing. Then I could hop into the back doorway and access the purse by her feet from behind (second image below). Since I hadn't drunk the holy blood for Supreme, I couldn't frob the glyph down here for that mode and thus not obtain the secret horn. I could easily get it for regular Ghost.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image007.jpgInline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image008.jpgNext I accessed the hidden section on the prison's fourth level by shooting a water arrow through a grated wall. This lowered a drawbridge that gave me access to a key and furthermore some secret loot. I could've skipped the key for Supreme, but then I'd have to pick up an extra water arrow to reclose the drawbridge, so that canceled itself out. This was it for the prison, so I exited via the cave to the east where I had entered before.
OutsideNone of the underwater caves were really that difficult. The eels I could gauge and just enter semi-blind without the lantern on. If they couldn't see me, they never reacted. I tried clipping through the entrance to the pirate treasure lair with the NewDark sword-blocking maneuver, but couldn't do it. I was actually quite relieved, as this technique feels like cheating. Entered the lighthouse where I needed to call the ferry. Thomas the lighthouse keeper had gotten himself stuck in the hallway, and no amount of reloads seemed to fix the issue ((
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image009.jpg) see image). This wasn't a problem, except I couldn't return the fuse for Supreme. Technically, this was a bust, though I know the early days of the community excused such busts if due directly to a dark engine glitch. Supreme was already gone, so I didn't spend any more time thinking about it.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image010.jpgWestern IslandThe most convenient way of getting to the western island was by traveling inside the coffin. This also gave me access to the cross once the coffin got burned in the crematorium, which ultimately yielded more loot. I didn't count this as property damage, since it was a scripted event triggered by the female guard and not by me. I soon, however, realized something quite game changing. The intended way to enter the underground cave system was by removing some boulders using an explosive charge (image above). Unfortunately, this alerted both stationary guards on the top level. There was no variation to this result, meaning they both alerted to hunt mode every single time. I thus had to find a different way into the caves. The only way to do this was by frobbing a glyph below the compound's southern well. This accessed a teleportation pool that took me straight into the caves (image below). However, I had to drink the holy blood in order to see this glyph, which meant Supreme was now forced into drinking this potion. That was another bust for that mode, but it meant the Horn of Quintus in the prison now could be taken for that mode after all, which was a nice bonus.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image011.jpgThe rest of the buildings on the western island were easy. The crematorium master key was not necessary to pick up for Supreme. I remembered to send the ferry back to the eastern island using the button in the control room. I could get all the loot in the holy water font cave, but I couldn't ascend via the well. Instead I had to take the elevator back up and slide into the water, then emerge in the room with the rowboat and sneak out that way. Then I headed for the flute and entered the red caves from there.
CavesI could now reach the tomb beyond the blocked path I was supposed to blow up earlier by using a teleporter in the room with the sleeping mummy. There was a glyph on the wall behind a casket, and if I frobbed it and quickly ran into the pool, I would appear in the cave above. It was interesting that the rubble could not be blown up from this side. It was difficult to get back down and still close the casket. I had to use the rat's blood potion to block the lid, then grab it as I fell down ((
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image012.jpg) see image). One of the artifacts from the room with the sleeping mummy was also tough, because the mummy was too close and always gave a growl. I had to go get a crate from the sewers in order to get high enough to grab it (image below). There was a very convenient portal in the room to the north that took me directly to the old sewers.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image013.jpgBeyond the colored gem puzzle door there were some more loot that had to be skipped for Supreme. I had to trigger a trap in order to get covered with a white mist (image below). This was the only way to make a door in that area frobbable and access the loot. The only way to get rid of that mist afterwards was to drink a healing potion, although that wasn't necessary to do.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image014.jpgWhen I finally reached the cave with the Foreseer, since I hadn't released it from the grasp of the haunts, it wasn't there. I would have to go back to the prison and try something else. Instead I brought back Dewdrop and the small mummy and burned the latter in the crematorium. From this I could get the blood ash vial, which I was hoping would be able to release the Foreseer without interacting with the haunts. The vial turned my water arrows into blood ash arrows for 30 seconds. Back at the prison, to my astonishment, all of the grated walls leading to the lava chamber with the Foreseer were penetrable to arrows (image below). And when I used a blood ash arrow on it, it disappeared!! This triggered a first alert from the top level haunt, but that was only a Supreme bust. All the haunts kept patrolling too. Back on the western island, the Foreseer had teleported to the area behind the dormitory. If I now used the green Dewdrop on the pool of tears, the Foreseer fell to the ground and completed the objective. Awesome!!!
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image015.jpgEndingsThe stats below are from the “normal” G-ending. The I-ending is also possible to complete Supreme clean. It requires the collection of a few extra items, but none of those would bust Supreme to obtain. The remaining S-, R- and Y-endings cannot be completed without Supreme busts, because they all require items from the Heart Realm. Once you enter that realm, upon leaving the first flooded chamber, you have to take a first alert from the closest haunt (image below). I think you have to take several more as you obtain the two Dewdrops, since each doorway is brightly lit and in view of enemies. The S-ending is perhaps the most honorable, but requires you to set up a fight between the two Genowefa witches, which goes against rule #5. However, they only end up merging into a new green witch, thanking us in the process, so I'm not sure if that counts as “attacking” each other. The R-ending forces us to kill both witches individually, so that's totally out of the question. The Y-ending is in my opinion the coolest conclusion to the story. It is possible to complete for regular Ghost, as it only involves an alternate ritual and no further enemy interaction. But it does require the red Dewdrop from the Heart Realm, so it cannot be completed for Supreme.
Inline Image:
https://www.klatremus.org/HeartcliffIslands_files/image016.jpgIn summary, two endings can be completed for Supreme (G and I) and one more for Ghost (Y). Two endings (S and R) cannot be completed for either mode. Please let me know if anyone finds ways to improve on this. Thanks to qolelis for this amazing mission. I am sad to hear he has retired as a mission author.
Notes:- Due to the reaction of other players, I have ruled (reluctantly) that cutting the metal bar in the first cell is property damage, thus this busts Ghost and makes the run a failure.
- Obtaining the metal rod from the jail cell door is property damage, so I skipped it. This meant I couldn't complete the sabotaging vital equipment objective on the western island, which was a Supreme bust.
- Removed a light source when taking the lantern in the prison. It was needed to navigate the vent shafts. Supreme bust.
- Skipped three coins (15) in the compost. The eel reacted to my presence whether I used the burrick pee or not. Others have reported being able to take this without getting a reaction from the eel, so this might be possible to obtain after all.
- The diamonds worth 200 behind the flag in the pirate lair have to be skipped. They can't be taken until you cut the flag.
- Skipped a purse worth 17 on a sleeping maid on the laundry floor for Supreme. Picking the lock on the door alerted one of the upstairs servants. This can be avoided if using the Hand of Glory on the bedroom door. Thanks to WheretIB2!
- Skipped the golden bone worth 225 in the prison for Supreme. I couldn't reach the cell without a first alert from the closest prison guard.
- Couldn't return the lighthouse fuse to the room where I found it. Thomas had gotten stuck just outside the doorway and heard the noise. Supreme bust?
- I had to drink the holy blood in order to avoid the a Ghost bust on the western island. This is not allowed for Supreme and thus another bust for that mode.
- Triggered a first alert from the nearest haunt when shooting the Foreseer with a blood ash arrow. Supreme bust.
- Skipped 440 worth of loot behind the gem puzzle door in the red caves for Supreme. I had to trigger a trap in order to access this room.
- The remaining deducted loot are those items I didn't find during my initial run, instead I used a loot list to locate them. Since loot lists aren't allowed for any Ghost mode, I lowered the total to reflect this difference.
- Some of the stats are omitted because they are not shown in the in-game end stats, along with several other ones. However, I didn't deal damage at any point, and naturally didn't incur any knockouts or kills.
Galaer on 18/8/2022 at 08:36
Awesome that you managed to report this mission, klatremus. When I played it was nightmare. Lots of eternal darkness and lantern has extremely short range. This and non explained mechanics made me quit this mission. Even with walkthrough I couldn't figure out how to do alchemy or where is explosive device needed for entering caves.
Great report, but I disagree with your classification of metal bar from starting cell. You said it's not a damage property, because there is no visible proof and portcullis works the same. Well, not really. First you showed crack at the top of metal bar (something I never noticed when I played this mission). That's the visible proof that metal bar is damaged and you also used tool to do it. You say that portcullis works the same. So is bashed door. It also can be closed, so it blocks your path. But it can't be locked just like this portcullis. You can always move through cell by bending metal bar and without damaging it it wouldn't be possible.
klatremus on 18/8/2022 at 23:51
I understand your points here, Galaer, totally. However, I think I found a method to counteract your point. I'm not sure why I never tried this during the actual run, but I might go back and do it before my next video. After you leave the cell by bending the bar once, then you bend it back so it looks normal. You are arguing that you can always bend the middle pole back again in order to walk through it, so you have broken the integrity of the gate. I agree on that now that you say it. Well, what I realized is that if you go over to the nearest stationary guard and flip the lever to your cell to open it, then the cell gate becomes completely unfrobbable. It doesn't even highlight. It stays shut and you can no longer bend the middle pole, not even if you go back and reset the lever. It's as if you have permanently made the cell gate shut, just like it was when you started the mission. The only difference is the gate doesn't highlight any longer. I honestly don't think the author even thought of this, because it means you can't even obtain the metal rod and therefore can't complete the optional objective. The same thing happens after you take the metal rod, then the door becomes unfrobbable and the levers don't work, but then you can walk through it at will.
What do you think?
Galaer on 19/8/2022 at 07:31
I'm sorry, but I don't think so. Even though there is a way to make portcullis unfrobbable, the gap in upper part of metal bar is visible for the eye, which is clear damage property for me. And we had discussion about using tools in order to damage things in the past. It's not allowed. Plus using level to make portcullis unfrobbable, I don't think it's intended. After all you need metal bar for sabotage objective. So I think it's just a bug. And the thing that lever makes portcullis unfrobbable is suspicious, because other levers function normally and open/close other cells. But maybe it's just this lever is broken. So if you would manage to escape cell without visible gap in metal bar, I would agree it's not damage property. But there is a gap indicating that metal bar has been cut.
Also remember our discussion about using flashbomb on enemy even though he doesn't alert to it situation. It wasn't allowed. Even if Dried Burrick Pee would blind eel without alerting it, it would still be But still a ghost bust.
klatremus on 19/8/2022 at 16:46
Hmm...I'm still not sold on that gap constituting property damage. Since you can reset the gate to become impenetrable again, I actually feel this is admissible. Plus you also have the objective saying to "escape from prison" I feel make this situation a bit more lenient. We have discussed using tools to break things, but that has always been permanently broken irreversible items, like the bolt cutters in Turning of the Leaves. Even if it is a bug, there are many cases where bugs can be used. You are just using what the author has given you to work with, so I have no problem using such a method.
The flash bomb analogy I disagree with. When using flash bomb there is a clear response in the AI to your action. If the AI would just keep standing or walking if patrolling and just not react to you, then flash bombs would be acceptable. If the eel similarly would just sit in the same place and not react to you and not move, then it wouldn't be a bust. Here it went to hide and then gave a verbal alert once the burrick pee wore off, so that is what makes it a bust.
Galaer on 19/8/2022 at 20:09
The problem with gap is it wasn't there at the start. It appeared after you used tool to cut metal bar. Even if you make it unfrobbable it still looks broken. If you would be able to bend metal bar without cutting it, then I would agree. Yes, there is objective "Escape the Prison", but it doesn't mention breaking portcullis. Remember what you mentioned when we discussed destroying mirror in Scarlet Cascabel - if mission doesn't mention destruction, it's not excused bust. And escape objective completes in different place.
Using your analogy to bolt cutters and padlock. It's like cutting padlock and then placing it back. It looks like nobody can enter, but in reality padlock is broken and anyone can easily remove it. Just because you make it look like it's fine, it doesn't change that in fact it's broken.
As for flashbomb you are incorrect. There is certain AI that doesn't make any response towards flashbomb. I don't remember if it's stationary watcher or stationary bot, but if one of them will not hear flashbomb, it will be blind without making any reaction. Just like this Dried Burrick Pee. Besides do you really believe that this eel wouldn't know that he was blinded?
Galaer on 19/8/2022 at 20:11
MANSION OF CHAOS
Mission reported by Vanguard. Due to it's difficulty Vanguard abandoned ghost run and did knockout run. So I'm going to try better. Luckily author of this mission made comment under Nexus Letum's video mentioning weapon granting invisibility effect and it's location. It was supposed to be reward for sending to him email with password found inside mission. Thanks to that I have fighting chance. Still I don't think this mission is ghostable because of kill Baneson objective.
CITY
Beginning is peaceful. You just need to open secret club entrance and get 2 pieces of loot. Vanguard produced a lot of carrots here for stacking purposes, but with new mantle I don't need that. To get on walls I can mantle on trees. Guard in front of Town Hall could be nudged, but since I'm going to grab invisibility weapon, I'm going to leave him and go to church.
This place has 2 stationary guards and there is no way to enter church right now. To climb up you must get to window near entrance and mantle on it (it's not possible with window on the other side), then you mantle on top of entrance and quickly on roof. Jump to left wall and climb on wall to control panel. Use it and return to church's roof. Drop down to newly opened passage and use switch. Go along wall to previous part of city.
Mantle on tree and go on wall. Go all the way north and mantle on higher wall to avoid alert from green spider. Go from the other side and use lever. Go to door to grab purse and healing potion from archers. Use ladder to go down and now you can enter cemetery. This isn't intended path to cemetery though. The intended path requires getting Cemetery key and it's in mayor's house, but you need his key, which is located in tunnel under mansion with metal floor, no shadow and small spider looking in your direction. Impossible to ghost. Anyway, behind 3 tombstones and one statue are 4 pieces of loot. It's pretty easy to avoid haunts. Drop into hole.
ENTERING MANOR
You may noticed that falling into water don't cause splash noise. And that's true for most pools of water in this mission except one place. Because of that enemies don't hear you dropping into water and swimming. 2 tombs are easy to ghost. Cave has another easy purse behind crayman. Don't go left along left wall or else you fall outside of map.
Giant cave has green spiders and frogs. Edges of platforms are sharp, so dropping on their edges make you stuck on them and it's hard to mantle up on them. So you must jump on middle of platforms, but it's noisy. For now go closer to light mushroom and drop on edge of platform. You must drop on wall and quickly strafe run left to avoid fall damage. Then go to other side and drop to bottom. Stationary crayman is easy to dodge. Just crouch and run along left wall. Use lever, then another lever you will teleport to other part of giant cave.
Jump on the left side of platform. Sometimes frog will not go into search mode. Then mantle on stone beam and get nugget. Mantle up on platform with green spider and sneak from his right side, then run behind pillar to avoid alerting him. Go outside and run along right wall to basement. Basement is really easy place to ghost. Here is also opened wall that leads to another lever. By the way all these secret levers are necessary to get Holy Fire Sword and open path to Monroe.
FIRST FLOOR
Here is stationary guard and he must be nudged a bit forward and left, so you will sneak into right corridor. Loot dining room and go to main stairs. mantle on them, go to the other side and sneak into east door. You can't go to 2nd floor here to archer, because stationary guard observes stairs. So just go behind stairs to other door (it often vanish when it's fully opened). Here is another stationary guard that must be nudged. This time he must be nudged forward inside room and a bit to left. Our target is invisible ladder near torch, so douse it to get to it. On top of it is invisibility blackjack (it's called Holy Fire Sword for whatever reason, but it can't hurt Monroe).
With this weapon you can easily sneak to switch in SE corridor. Simply hide in corners from patrollers. Also picklock NE door. It leads to city, so you can loot town hall and go to church. Inside douse 2 torches, but don't press switch under one of the torches (it summons ghost blocking passage forward). From secret wall you can get Star of Speed (infinite speed potion and Super Healer (super healing potion). I'm taking them for possible stacking. You can also grab purse from archer on 2nd floor and slowly sneak behind Baneson (looks like thief) and take gem from his desk.
KILLING BANESON
Baneson is impossible to kill in one hit and his death alerts all nearby guards. He can't be KO-ed and he's immune to gas. But silent water muffles all sounds (I tested with guards too - AI don't hear drowning guards). So that's my target. First I'm nudging archer in front of bridge all the way past bridge. Then I'm sneaking behind Baneson and nudge him all the way to water. It's a really long nudge. It took me 40 min. Baneson 2nd alerts to drowning damage and moves right. Sometimes when he die on his own nobody will hear that. But if he will die from drowning, kill objective doesn't complete. So you are forced to wait for Baneson to get weakened and then hit him with broadhead arrow. Sadly this is heard by front guards and swimming pool patroller. So the whole killing of Baneson is ghost bust #1. At least manor guards didn't go into search mode. Now I can safely return to main stairs and loot bathroom on 2nd floor.
SECOND FLOOR
Now I can safely return to main stairs and loot bathroom on 2nd floor. 1st room on the left is locked. 1st room on the right has 2 nuggets, but also floor tile activating fire arrow trap and later switch activating another trap, so avoid these traps. 2nd room on the right leads to lava area. It has one urn, so I'm planning to take it and return to corridor. But hall to lava area is marble and there are stone ledges floating on lava. There is also fire elemental here. If he floats in place, then just save and reload and he will start his patrol. You can't jump on stone ledges, because it will alert fire elemental and when he's even 1st alerted it's impossible to sneak past him. So I'm forced to use 2 moss arrows. First moss is shot in closer part of 1st stone ledge, so part of moss will cover marble floor. Second moss arrow is shot at 2nd ledge. Ledges are angled, so it's easy by mistake fail jumping and you fall into lava instead. Run to corners of narrow passage and wait for fire elemental to pass. Then just go grab urn from 2nd niche and quietly return. You aren't safe anywhere where are stone ledges near marble corridor from fire elemental. To corridor you must jump from farther part of stone island. This way you will not bump your head into ceiling and avoid falling into lava.
2nd left room leads to water passage. Normally it kills you due to bug, but thanks to dml it's possible to use it. I didn't install dml fix though, so I guess TFix is doing that automatically in my place. Thanks to that it's possible to get tiara in lower underwater tunnels. Also here is the only water that makes splash noise, but fire elemental is too far to hear it. After grabbing tiara use hourglass shaped water to get to higher floor. Then jump on edge of ledges to last water passage and also ignore ledge in corner as it has sharp edge. You are in the room with shallow water. Go south and open chest with Fire Shard. Then go north.
You have 2 paths. NW path leads to area that I simply call "Path". This are stone walls floating in air and you jump from one to another. There is no shadow and there are bugbeasts and ratmen. You can't jump on edge of these walls to land quietly, because their sides are made out of blue crystal that hurts. So you need to pray that your jump will cause only 1st alerts and be careful where you are saving. Then you need to strafe run to drop on descending walls and enter cave with ball shaped barriers like from Undercover and patrolling ratmen. It's a tough area and has no loot. It leads to area with Eye Staff, but there is another way leading there. So I'm going to skip this part and go to NE area.
Here is marble floor and ratman looking at you. Go through door and get purple box. Return to corridor, ignore 2nd door for now and go to gravel area. You will need to slowly sneak past stationary bugbeast and ratman who cover middle of corridor. Go left to frobbable wall and open it with shard. Grab Useless key, which isn't useless. Here is passage to lava area, but you need items to stack, but I prefer to return to marble corridor and take door that I ignored previously. Dodge ratmen and take purse from under stairs. You will enter portal corridor through middle door. Go to 1st left room and open door with Useless key. Grab fire poker and use Fire Shard to open next door. There are traps activated by floor tiles around Holy Fire Sword, so mantle on ledge, lean for sword and strafe run to other side for 2 torcs. Take 2 golden hammers and use teleport behind them to go to entrance to Monroe.
But first I need Eye Staff and Firestone. So I'm going back to forest to metal slope area and through water go above Eye staff. On top ring are 2 nuggets. Descend and jump to Eye Staff, then return on lower ring and drop on obelisk and on floor. Go via passage without red smoke. Garden is easy to ghost and forest is also easy. When you enter forest go twice left, ignore black square blocking passage and go right. You must sneak right in front of green spider and grab Firestone. Time to return to entrance to Monroe. So return to enter of forest and go inside tree. Go to metal slope area. It's hard to get into passage, so I usually mantle into it. But I noticed that climbing into it's left part let's you land on flat ground and thanks to that you can easily crouch into passage.
KILLING MONROE
Entrance to Monroe should be opened, but it's closed. This confused me a lot. So maybe I am forced to use big lever that teleports me near church in city. So that's what I did and returned through front entrance to manor. To my surprise alerted archer returned to his nudged position instead of his initial position before being nudged. I returned to 2nd floor and used teleport in 1st left room to get to entrance to Monroe's Lair. And this time it was open. Use blue passage and go down to another church. Here you are forced to use ledges above beasts. First is area with ratmen. First level is easy, 2nd requires jumping on edge of platform, then running to 2nd small platform and jumping again on edge of last platform and strafe running to tunnel to area above craymen. This is harder, because of sharp edges. Drop on 1st sharp edge and go to stone beam to get out of it. From ledge with hammers (there is Holy Symbol there, but I have no idea what it does). Drop on another sharp edge and get to another stone beam.
Then you just need to go through small window, which is hard and you can easily get stuck or even die here. Climb on giant snake head and take 2 nuggets from it's eyes. Go inside. You may need to lean forward and go forward to enter. drop in water, sneak behind Monroe and kill him with one overhead swing from your new sword. And mission will end. Boy, it's the first mission I ghost when I am equipped with blackjack for 90% of time.
STATS:
Time: 2:10:27; Loot: 4172/4172
Pockets Picked: 6/6; Locks Picked: 4
Back Stabs: 1; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 45; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 2
GHOST: IMPOSSIBLE