Galaer on 3/8/2019 at 06:36

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Funny thing. I was reading this rule and realized that I actually broke this rule on my supreme ghost run. Details at the end of report.

Galaer on 3/8/2019 at 08:08

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It's hard to tell without knowing details of the situation. The question is: is it scripted situation and what kind of damage it it? If it's scripted situation then I think it's excused. If camvator is on patrol route, then I would try to time it with patrollers to avoid being attacked. If it's from a trap or if it's falling damage from after camvator, then I think it can be excused.

Also one more thing. I am wondering. During camvator, I think, you don't play as Garrett. After all Garrett can't fly. So camvators cutscenes are more like narrator of the story showing you the world. In other words - it's narrator's vision that gets damaged, not Garrett. So maybe the whole camvator cutscene damage can be excused. That's just my theory though.

klatremus on 3/8/2019 at 21:40

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A camvator sequence would never bust ghost, as it is completely scripted. The only thing would be if you could control when it started and avoid getting spotted along the way, but even that sounds strange. Like you said Galaer, its not Garrett flying through the air but rather the players view.

Just a friendly reminder, this thread is primarily for ghost reports and questions/comments regarding those reports. General ghosting questions and discussions should be posted (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487) here. No hard feelings though, these are great and valuable questions. :D

Galaer on 6/8/2019 at 19:53

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AN ENIGMATIC TREASURE WITH A RECONDITE DISCOVERY

Gort's latest mission from Thief 1 Anniversary Contest. Like all Gort's mission this one have small amount of shadow and a lot of well lighted areas. There is a lot of enemies. The biggest problem I see with this mission is lack of loot. This mission is big, but in many hidden places you will find nothing. But if you find loot, then general rule is 1 loot per room. That's why in this ghost run I'm gonna skip half of the mission.

GETTING INTO OPERA HOUSE

You are starting near locked gate. Leave it and go quickly to shadow near passage leading to Opera. This is good place to wait for 3 purses and letter. They are walking through these passage. Together with like 10 or 15 other NPC. Read the scroll. It completes the first objective. After that go right (not through passage) to well lighted building. If there is no stationary servant near door, then just wait for him. He will help me getting into Opera House.

First of all, I heard that it's possible to get into Opera without servant. It's done by running quickly into shadow behind 3 guards, stealing their key and getting inside. But I don't like this solution, because in normal circumstances guards would attack me. I don't want be noticed by them. That's why I'm using help of servant.

Servant spawns only after reading letter, which completes first objective. But it is my choice if I want activate him or not. I'm doing it by getting close to him. He's gonna gas these problematic guards. This is also intended solution by Gort and also a ghost bust. But that's my moral decision.

One more thing. Servant is going to guards, but gas explosion only happens on our eyes. So even if servant vanished from Opera long time ago, until we will get close, guards will be conscious. This gives us time to wait for this place to be deserted.

We can also loot this street. Not too much to find. One diamond in nearby garden and urn on wooden sill high above street. This urn, I think, was placed in the most idiotic place. After street will become empty, go to Opera entrance. Gas explosion will happen. Grab Opera House key and hide bodies inside.

OPERA HOUSE

First go right and hide in shadow on the right. Sneak into corridor. Shadow is in doorway. Wait for reception lady to turn left and quickly go into reception. Take purse from top of shelf on the right and go back to shadow. Return to crossroad and go to good shadow at the south.

On both sides are ramps leading to balconies. Both ramps are patrolled by guards. Left ramp is barely safe in first corner. Guard has purse. In balconies area there are 2 servants walking. Front servant has odd poker that you need. On balcony near burrick balcony is silver binoculars. Right ramp is shorter and you are safe in corner. The woman at the top of ramp is turning and has purse. And that's all for balconies. Go south to the audience and go right to the hardest part of opera.

Corridor is patrolled by a guard and archer with random patrol route. 2 rooms are also guarded by stationary guard and corridor is very well lighted. You need to go into both room. Good luck.

You enter the corridor. See little shadow? You can hide on the left side of it. But it's not safe. But there is another shadow (barely visible) on the other side of corridor. behind corner are another 2 little shadows on both sides. And sometimes they are safe, sometimes they aren't. It depends on random patrol route of archer. Sometimes he walks close shadows and he will spot you and sometimes he walks far and he will not notice you.

The corridor with stationary guard is very well lighted. There are shadows in doorways. Sneaking into first room is pretty easy. Here is papyrus which gives you new objective. Getting to the second room is much harder. Patrolling guard isn't a problem, but both archer and stationary guard is. Stationary guard must look at wall away from rooms. Then quickly run into water mage room. He has a purse - the last piece of loot I found in opera. Now you just need to leave Opera House.

If you continue going north you will go to reception and ghosting reception lady with all patrollers on this corridor and near entrance to opera is very difficult. I prefer to go the way I entered this place. If you have enough time, you may skip shadow in first doorway. Go to audience and along wall to passage to north. Guards patrolling ramps are rare. The last problem is guards near entrance. Jump on carpet and sneak to shadow on one of the sides (they are very little). Leave Opera House.

THE BRIDGE

You will get a cutscene. Time to go through all this traffic to the other end of city. Use the shortcut through little gardens. Here are torches. Gort gave us 15 water arrows. Way too many. There is only 9 torches in the whole city. Not only that, guards can notice doused torches and go into search mode, which is a ghost bust. So don't douse any torches.

Shadows in the tunnels are wide and because of that they are safe. Going further is bridge starting with metal floor. You are fairly safe there. Except the moments where many NPCs trying to cross this place, they can spot you.

I think the bridge is the worst part of this mission. There is a lot of traffic going on and I need to time everything with stationary archer. From the shadow you need to mantle into little window on the left, go to door and hide in shadow in a doorway. Then wait for him to turn around and go to background door on his left. Wait for him to turn. If he turned east go into north passage, if he turned south go into east passage (that's where you need to go. By the way, north passage leads to shortcut (may be opened later), but it's not very useful. You still need to deal with this bridge. So I'm not gonna open this shortcut.

Afterwards are golden helmet guards. They are pretty easy to dodge. Near big gate is also 1 water arrow on wooden window sill high above street. Ithink it's only for masochists. Anyway, enter warehouse area.

WAREHOUSE AREA

Here is few patrollers and stationary archer near door. Wait for him to turn around, mantle on stairs and enter Warehouse Building A. Hide in shadow behind beam. There is blue chest behind crates under stairs. Stairs are patrolled by archer with Warehouse Building A key. Steal it. Go though door. In storage you find diamond. Leave outside.

More patrollers. In refuse dump on the left is single golden plate. Return to shadow and go on barrels on the north. Stationary archer has a purse. Then go into Warehouse Building B through west door. Hide under stairs and steal Warehouse Building B key. Leave building and go all they way to the end of outside area on NW corner of warehouse area. Here are is also located our exit. Enter Hammerite Warehouse.

PROBLEMATIC HAMMERITE

You need to go to top floor. But there is also chance that Hammerite patrolling upstairs will end getting stuck at the bottom of elevator shaft. If that happen you will not manage to use elevator. I think it gets stuck on him. In that situation you need to shoot rope arrow under sharp angle into wooden ceiling and mantle upstairs.

If Hammerite is upstairs, you need to time him blindly and then quickly run and open door to corridor. I think it's also important to send elevator down, because once he got interested and went check elevator switches. From corridor operate forge to obtain silver bracelet. There are also 2 moss arrows on shelf and rope arrow in chest.

Riding down elevator makes noise, so instead go into corridor. Go to a passage leading to Building A. Here is stationary guard. Go into shadow on his right and pass guard during his turning animation. Go to reception. On top of left shelf is a ring. Go back and enter merchant room. You are safe in doorway. Merchant has short and random patrol route. It's possible to steal blue gem without turning off lights. You can go behind him and change direction based on his route. It's possible to do all that without any alert. Go back to Building B and outside.

LOOTING BUILDING B

So almost all storages are easy to loot. But there is one with guards inside that is harder. It's opened and the safest way is to sneak inside from north. Hide behind column and run to right side. Sneak to stairs ang go up. Go to opposite side. Patrolling archer has a purse. On top of barrel storage is a purse (first secret). Be careful - door slam into barrels and make noise. In dark office there are 2 moss arrows and in lighted office at the top of bookshelf is a tapestry.

Now you can leave this warehouse and loot other warehouses. I also noticed that stationary archer moved into different position, so it's impossible to go behind him. Also he occasionally walks east and returns. This happens if I'm standing on east side from him and he looks at me. No matter if I'm in full shadow and I'm far away, he spots me, walk towards me, stops, do searching animation and returns. So in order to avoid him, I go behind boxes on south.

When you finish go all the way to Opera House. Through the bridge again. Opera isn't opera anymore. Right now you will get teleported to Mage Guild. Mage Guild has almost no loot, so you don't need to explore it all. This place is more about getting items. It's big and pretty tough.

ROGUE MAGE

In front of Hall of Idols is Rogue Mage. He's blocking our way to Golden Skull, which we need. In Barracks we can find his diary. This trigger new objective of KO-ing him and bringing him back to Barracks. There are 2 ways of dealing with this objective.

1. Not triggering the objective. After getting Hall of Idols key from maze, disable the trap. Use moss arrow on the floor and nudge him. At some point he will be moved more inside statues. When that happen jump on table, then on top of metal railing and continue nudging. You will push him forward much faster. At the end drop down and get Golden Skull.

2. Completing the objective. Go to Barracks (double door on your right). Lean forward into door to time inside guard. Jump via carpets to double door on your right. In Barracks open purple box and read a book. You will get new objective. Leave Barracks door open and return to entrance.

Rope to balcony on your left and sneak into shadow behind obelisk. Here is Rogue Mage snooping around. KO him and bring him balcony metal railing. Climb railing and jump+mantle on reflector. Then drop down. Go back to entrance.

Go right again and drop body in front of double door. You need to time guard inside. Open door, take body and jump from carpet to carpet. For last carpet you will need to move closer before jumping. Then sneak into shadow in the doorway. You have barely enough time. Maybe even you can get to Barracks without leaving door open.

Get inside, close door, climb left bed and drop body. You completed Rogue Mage objective. Now you just need to return to the entrance.

SACK OF UNKNOWN DUST

This item is needed for Statue Room. To get this item you need to go to higher level via right stairs. Then enter Alchemy Class door. You need to time both archer and guard to go north to balcony. Go behind them and just before balcony turn left. Hide in a corner. Guards will first alert to you and go south. Enter class and quietly grab a sack of unknown dust.

Go back into dark corner and wait for guards to enter balcony, Jump from carpet to carpet south to exit. Go downstairs to the passage under middle stairs. Enter Statue Room and leave sack near the entrance. Go upstairs via left stairs.

MAZE FULL OF SECRETS

Now you need to go south. On the opposite side is a stationary mage that can spot you. Drop down to the fountain ( you run in standing position on fountain), go to big metal gate and after it will open and close. stand on teleporting tile. It will take you to Statue Room. Go on tiles behind you until you get a chest (second secret). Then go on teleporting tile to return to fountain. Teleporting tile doesn't work anymore, but there is a Warehouse Storage key on it. Rope up.

Open south door and hide behind them. You need to time stationary mage. The problem is that he's turning is random and he stays in one position for random amount of time. You need to jump via carpets to shadow on left wall. Here you are safe. Enter maze.

When walls are invisible - enemies can still spot you. There is also a glitch that sometimes you will run on this loud floor silently. Otherwise you will need to move slowly. You need to get to south chests. They contain Statue Room key and Hall of Idols key.

Now you need to return to shadow and time this annoying mage together with patrolling mage and guard. I needed you can drop to fountain. Return to stairs. On north side is a statue and switch under it. It is a time switch and you need to go quickly to the bottom of stairs. Here you will find chest with third secret. Go to statues to get teleported to entrance of Statue Room.

GETTING ARTEFACTS

Open door and use key and then use switch to move statue. Grab sack and put it on Hand of Fate. Grab it and go to entrance to Mage Guild. Rope up to left balcony and hide in shadow behind obelisk. Because I completed Rogue Mage objective, the only problem here are patrollers. Use second key to deactivate trap. Grab Golden Skull and activate trap again. From balcony drop on reflector and then drop down.

Go to another double door under middle stairs. Put Golden Skull on pedestal. Now you need to do some jumps on moving platforms. The biggest problem are the platforms on the side. They are going up and down on the path of platform circling around this room. Also it's hard to control our jumping momentum on these platforms. On the other side is Chalice of Life. Take it and this time go to top of the middle stairs.

Put Hand of Fate and Chalice of Life on pedestals to enter High Mage room. Here Gort break the rule of 1 loot piece per room. There are 3 loot pieces. In blue chest is High Mage's Magic Scepter. Time to leave.

ESCAPE

Take east stairs down. On west stairs spawn new mage. Leave Mage Guild. You need to go to Warehouse Area. Through a Bridge. Again. This time I had luck with traffic. I also noticed that I can hide in little shadows under lighted windows (you need to crouch to enter them. This made crossing the Bridge easier.

In the Warehouse Area are new enemies: guards with lanterns and mages. Also if you get spotted, it fails exit objective. Enter Building A. Here is located Mages Storage. You have a key for that. Inside are 3 chests of loot and purple box with loot. Go to the outside between both buildings. Go through a warehouse near refuse dump. On the other side go right to the Back Exit.

STATS:

Time: 2 hour 11 min 56 s; Loot: 3290/3665
Pockets Picked: 12/16; Locks Picked: 3
Back Stabs:0; Knock Outs: 1 (Rogue Mage)
Damage Dealt: 1; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents killed: 0; Others killed: 0
Iron Beasts Destroyed: 0; Disabled: 0
Secrets: 1/3 (it's a glitch, I actually got all 3 secrets)

GHOST: SUCCESS. I used servant to gas 3 guards at the entrance of Opera. Apparently it's not a ghost bust.
PERFECT GHOST: POSSIBLE. If you run behind Opera guards and steal a key, you can end with only first alert. That wasn't my choice. That's why I say perfecting this mission is possible. I also didn't notice any of loot I found impossible to obtain.
SUPREME GHOST: POSSIBLE?. Looks like hiding bodies after servant action isn't supreme bust. On my run I registered few first alerts though. But maybe I wasn't patient enough or it's just a case of skipping the loot. So right now I say that maybe it's possible.

klatremus on 7/8/2019 at 04:13

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Haven't played this one. If the servant alone is causing the alerts, then it can't be a bust. If all you do is get close to him to make the script start, then I'd say you're fine. It's the same as activating the archer fight in LotP. You can go another way, but triggering the fight simply by proximity is not busting ghost simply by the archers alerting to each other. If the guards see you as a result, it's a bust.