marbleman on 2/8/2019 at 05:26
Will do that a bit later. Can you clarify whether this breaks Supreme though? I don't think it does since frobbing an object through another object is not an exploit. It's similar to reaching loot through banners.
klatremus on 2/8/2019 at 05:41
It really depends on how you are reaching the lever. Is there a gap or a logical way to reach the lever through the sarcophagus? When reaching through a banner or even a window to grab something beyond, one can imagine Garrett's hand being nimble enough to reach it, but say leaning through a door or, worse yet, frobbing something through a solid door that one cannot even see, this would be clear engine exploits. Leaning through and frobbing something through a grate on the other hand would be possible, because there are holes through which Garrett could reach. Perhaps this better makes you understand the principles at work. I don't want to be dogmatic, but there is a certain logic to what is an exploit and what isn't.
Interesting discussion nonetheless. Of course, it would be better if I just went ahead and tried it myself. Is it in the very beginning of the mission?
Edit: I tried. Simply skipped the first level, didn't read objectives. I think I found the sarcophagus in question. There seems to be a track on the floor. Am I supposed to frob a lever on the backside of it? I tried that, but without success.
Galaer on 2/8/2019 at 05:47
BASIC
This mission is a showcase what is possible with Dromed. It doesn't have finish point, so I'm just gonna get to starting point and use cheat to finish this mission. It's impossible to get all the loot. One of golden nuggets is placed outside the world and it's inaccessible. There are 2 patrolling barrels called HorrorZero, but they aren't any problem. It's easy to ghost them.
STATS:
Time: 4 min 19 s; Loot: 2500/2600
Locks Picked: 0
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents Killed: 0; Others Killed: 0
GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT THIEF: SUCCESS. 1 gold nugget is inaccessible, but I was informed by klatremus that it's not an issue to claim success in this when loot is outside the level.
SUPREME GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT SUPREME: SUCCESS
marbleman on 2/8/2019 at 05:47
Yes, it is the very beginning. There is no logical way for Garrett to see or reach that lever, so yeah, it's not like one could imagine that he's sliding an arm under a banner or inbetween the openings in a grate.
Edit: Yeah you found the correct sarcophagus. There is a specific spot where you can reach the lever. Let's just call it an engine exploit. :D
klatremus on 2/8/2019 at 06:04
Galaer: If you are sure the nugget is outside the world and not accessible, then only 2500 is available and Perfect Thief is a success. If it's not possible to get the loot even when not ghosting, then it is not required to take to achieve Perfect Thief.
marbleman: I just managed to frob it like you explained. Yes, this would be a clear engine exploit. There is no logical way for Garrett to reach it, and it was never intentional from the author. It would be allowed for Ghost though as a last resort, but I gather it is not a last resort as you can enter by other non-exploitive means. Unless somehow entering that way makes you able to avoid alerting the haunts that busted ghost in the first place...
Galaer on 2/8/2019 at 07:27
Quote Posted by klatremus
Galaer: If you are sure the nugget is outside the world and not accessible, then only 2500 is available and Perfect Thief is a success. If it's not possible to get the loot even when not ghosting, then it is not required to take to achieve Perfect Thief.
This mission is so short and loot isn't really hidden. I read about this situation in the Basic FM thread actually. Thanks for info, klatremus.
Galaer on 2/8/2019 at 10:20
THE CRAZY PRIEST
This mission is short. Getting chisel is easy, but other objectives aren't. You need to get all the loot in this mission and kill Brother Merek. There are some troublesome pieces of loot. Also I don't know if it's possible to kill Brother Merek without second alert, because he's looking at doors and area is very well lighted.
CHURCH
Go left into shadow. Here is stationary Hammerite with candlestick. Go inside church and go left. Here is another stationary Hammerite in front of altar. He will need to go on a journey to another room at north. That's because he's observing entrance door and this place is well lighted. Also in entrance room is crown on statue. Nudging him to another room took me 25 min.
In church there is also candlestick and lever behind altar. Exit church via west door. You are safe in doorway, so patrolling Hammerite will not be a problem. Here you find ring near crates and a key with chisel in secret passage. Open locked door leading to ruined city.
RUINED CITY
After cave on the right is diamond. Another diamond in zombie house and in corner of the street with 2 houses. Go through a hole in wall to crazy priest area.
Here is Hammerite patrolling the street. Above his patrol route is wooden beam with key on window sill. You need to grab it and mantle on the roof. Then jump to Merek's house roof and drop down. Be careful, sometimes Merek can second alert to you mantling on his roof. Then rope up to another wooden beam to grab last diamond.
Now it's time for ghost busts:
1. There is no way to kill Merek without him getting into search mode and later even in hunt mode. There is super small shadow in doorway, but I never managed to get into it without priest going into hunt mode.
2. Death cry of the priest second alert patrolling Hammerite outside the house. That's why I decided to KO him, which still is a ghost bust.
STATS:
Time: 33 min 18 s; Loot: 725/725
Locks Picked: 0
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 1
Damage Dealt: 21; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents Killed: 0; Others Killed: 1
GHOST: FAILED
PERFECT THIEF: FAILED
SUPREME GHOST: FAILED. Other than ghost busts, there is also this part with nudging Hammerite to get 1 piece of loot.
marbleman on 2/8/2019 at 17:05
@klatremus: I've tested the mission and made an addendum at the end of the report. It indeed works, though you'd be cutting it pretty close loot-wise.
Galaer on 2/8/2019 at 21:02
DEWINDER MANOR
This mission is from last contest. It's fairly short, so I decided to supreme ghost it. I missed somewhere 200 loot, but I think it's possible to do collect everything for regular ghost. For supreme ghost there is 1 piece of loot that must be skipped.
SECOND FLOOR
I start outside. I went west and shoot rope arrow on the wooden beam. It's possible to do that without any alert. Then I went through a shadow to door and slowly entered it. The corridor of second floor is patrolled by 1 guard. Loot this area. You can't progress further, because there is a guard near stairs watching at door. Return to roof.
Sneak behind crates to passage with extra loot. Then return and grab one crate. Put it on wall on west. This will allow you to mantle on higher roof and go all the way to the other side of 2nd floor. You need to drop on balcony.
Here is lever inside fireplace that will lead you to Intruder Painting. There is also a switch behind bed that opens secret cache with golden mask and key for Art Gallery. Sadly you can't close this cache, so for supreme this loot isn't available. Loot this place, then go to corridor patrolled by the guard we saw on the other part of second floor. Enter first door on right.
Here is a guest walking between table and desk. Easy to avoid. Grab loot from desk and Sword Chest key from shelf. Return to balcony and jump to obelisk on left. Mantle it and then cancel mantling to safely drop on ground. Go to basement and loot it. Then climb ladder to kitchen.
FIRST FLOOR
This is the hardest part of this mission. There are 2 guards patrolling 2 corridors and servant patrolling between kitchen and dining room. I decide to get hardest loot. I went north behind guard and hid in shadow at the end on the left. Be careful - if you go too fast, stationary guard near doorway first alert to you. He observe entrance room to Manor. Sometimes he turns north. You need to time it with guard patrolling corridor and run for 2 golden vases. Then run to corner under stationary guard and wait. Your exit into shadow on the right end of next corridor, you need to time with this stationary guard, both patrolling guards and kitchen lady. It's really tough, but possible.
Sneak behind kitchen lady to dining room. Here is some golden plates and candlesticks to gather. Leave and hide in shadow on the right. Now you need to use lockpicks on Art Gallery door. Inside is patrolling guard that may spot you. Going behind him is relatively safe. Get all loot and the sword from blue chest. Then return to shadow at the end of corridor. Time to return to kitchen and through basement leave Manor.
RETURNING STUFF
But not for long. We need to return to roof via wooden beam and go to Lord Dewinder balcony. It's impossible to return key back to shelf, so I dropped it in front of shelf on the carpet. Then I dropped down on obelisk and returned back to roof.
Putting back crate is surprisingly easy. Guard nearby don't alert to it. Go to wooden beam. Below is another obelisk. Drop on it and drop on ground. Now just return to the starting point to finish this mission.
STATS:
Time: 48 min 37 s; Loot: 4871/5271
Locks Picked: 4
Back Stabs: 0; Knock Outs: 0
Damage Dealt: 0; Damage Taken: 0; Healing Taken: 0
Innocents Killed: 0; Others Killed: 0
GHOST: SUCCESS
PERFECT THIEF: POSSIBLE
SUPREME GHOST: FAILED, but POSSIBLE
PERFECT SUPREME: POSSIBLE. Golden mask from secret cache in Lord Dewinder's room must be skipped, because there is no way to close it. Secret switch only opens this cache, it can't close it.
Edit:
1. Looks like not closing secret cache with golden mask isn't a bust of perfect supreme after all. I change it to possible. Also I can obtain Art Gallery key and use it in place of lockpicks.
2. After reading ghost rules I realized that I broke rule regarding crates. I put crate in medium lighted area with archer patrolling nearby. That's a bust of supreme. I can't use this path to get to balcony. Luckily there is another route. West from balcony is wooden window sill. You can rope up there from ground. Then you need to do strafe jump and mantle on balcony. This eliminates second and third journey to the roof and messing with crate.
marbleman on 2/8/2019 at 21:07
If there is no way to close something, you're excused.
