FMs - Ghost/Perfect Thief Results (Part 8) [SPOILERS]

Galaer on 20/7/2019 at 15:29

Quote Posted by klatremus

Nice work! As for the one secret you said you had to skip for Supreme, if the only thing you had to do was turn on lights, then you are in the clear. Supreme only prohibits turning them off.

Edit: Oh, sorry. Looks like I didn't finish my sentence, so it looks like I'm talking about Art Gallery secret. I'm talking about Sealed House secret. I'm gonna edit it now. But I didn't knew that I can turn on light in supreme ghost. Good to know.

marbleman on 21/7/2019 at 13:02

I have a question regarding rule 9 of Supreme: "No triggering of traps is allowed if the trigger is caused directly by Garrett, such as stepping on a pressure plate or crossing an invisible trip wire." What about trap doors activated via levers? Should they be considered traps or just doors? They are intended to be the former, but mechanically, they are closer to the latter since they act more like gates that can be opened and closed.

klatremus on 21/7/2019 at 13:27

You need to explain the situation more. I take it Garrett is using the lever to access a new area? Traps can be tough to identify. Normally they are ones meant to catch Garrett unawares. How is that the case here if he is operating it?

marbleman on 21/7/2019 at 13:29

The report is coming soon. Let's determine whether they are traps once I post it. :)

marbleman on 21/7/2019 at 19:25

Game: Thief Gold
FM: Heart and Soul

Ghost - Success
Perfect Thief - Success
Supreme Ghost - Success
Perfect Supreme - Failed
Time - 42:54
Loot - 3451/3451 (Supreme: 2626)
Pockets Picked - 2/2
Locks Picked - 2 (Supreme: 0)
Backstabs - 0, Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0, Other Kills - 0, Bodies Discovered - 0
Consumables - none

Heart and Soul. Not a mission by xarax but rather a TDP 20th Anniversary Contest mission by StinkyKitty and McTaffer. As the name suggests, the mission revolves around Mystic's gemstones. Somewhere after the events of the first game, Garrett receives a note from the hammerites stating that the gems have found their way into the possession of a rogue mage who, along with a group of paid mercenaries, has occupied Mystic's Keep, barricaded everyone inside, and now has likely less than wholesome plans for them. Our goals are to steal both gems, steal the Adviser's emblem, and find out who's in charge of the guards in the keep.

This is a really interesting mission. It is not big, but the layout makes it seem enormous due to how interconnected it is. Pretty much the entire mission is open to exploration from the get-go, with very little gating. There are also quite a few instances of humans and undead being practically next door to each other, which is pretty fun. There is an interesting item for purchase: a silver key that opens a number of doors in the keep. It would be nice to have it from the start, but since I couldn't buy anything for Supreme, I had to find one in the mission. Here we go.

Getting Inside

The first dilemma came straight away. The gate to the keep is closed, but there is a gatehouse nearby. Inside, there is a key that opens the door leading into the keep proper and the lever that operates the gate. The key disappears on use and is seemingly an unnecessary pickup since I could just open the gate, exit the guardhouse, and enter that way. However, it is also important to consider that I wouldn't be able to close the gate on my way out as the mission would end before allowing me to do so. Thus, I entered the keep by using the key. On a side note, if the gate is opened, a guard patrolling nearby would see it and desert. He wouldn't alert; he would simply run away and disappear. While this is a scripted response, to me, getting rid of the guard goes against the spirit of Supreme, so that's another reason to use the door instead.

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From here, the mission can roughly be split in two: the keep and the crypt. Mystic's Soul and the journal with information can be found in the former, while Mystic's Heart and the Adviser's Emblem are underground. It makes sense to hit the crypts first though since to get the Adviser's Emblem, his sarcophagus has to be opened from the garden above. This is done by activating five collector towers using control panels near each. While doing that, I also got into the broken window and pickpocketed the orange key off the guard captain who has a long patrol route but is always found here in the beginning. There is another copy of the key in his quarters, the door to which is pickable, but it would be quite a bit more cumbersome to go for that one instead. I don't mind taking the key off the captain's belt to save some time. Additionally, picked up a couple pieces of loot in the corridor leading down to the prison level where the silver key can be found. However, the dungeon is occupied by burricks, and I don't trust myself with their alerts. It's easy to Ghost this area, but with Supreme, I couldn't be sure, so I decided to enter it from the other side.

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Returned to the garden and climbed the statue to get into the haunted house. Using a ledge, got into the room with a candlestick and a blue chest. Picking up the latter makes two zombies inside the house wake up and start patrolling. This is a scripted response, but I'd rather avoid it if I can. Thus, picked up just the candlestick and went around to enter the house from the other side. Picking up a couple more pieces of loot, made my way to the secret passage behind the slashed banner and got inside. The door on the other end responded to the orange key. Picked up loot around the area and exited into the garden with the well, inside of which is a haunted pail that floats up and down and acts as an elevator. Riding it took me to the underground level.

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marbleman on 21/7/2019 at 19:28

The Crypt

Picked up a golden book and jumped over into the collapsed corridor that led me to a temple of sorts. From here, opened the door to the burrick-occupied prison and got the silver key. Additionally, got a lever held by a creepy statue. The ramp in the middle leads to the exit from the crypts, and I will use it later. On a side note, the fire shadow inside the temple can get stuck on the water font. Saving and loading fixes him. Returned to the collapsed corridor and took the flooded tunnel into a similarly flooded cave with an odd tomb in the middle.

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Climbed in, picked up a couple coins, and took a ramp to the upper level where the Adviser's sarcophagus is located. The easiest way to take his emblem is to mantle the ledge from the ramp, which is outside of the haunt's view, climb through the window, and grab the emblem while the haunt and the Adviser are turned away. With the latter, it's a bit hard to tell where he's looking though. Then, had to get back into the water without making a splash, and the easiest way would be to drop onto stone to the left of the trap room. I should also mention that a couple of enemies in this area sound like apparitions but are normally completely silent. Thus, I took any apparition noises as an alert.

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Unfortunately, the trap room has to be skipped for Supreme. It is opened by picking a lockbox, and inside, there are three pieces of loot and two chests, one of which has another loot piece. Frobbing either chest makes the door to the room close and activates the spike wall. Triggering of traps is not allowed for Supreme, but why not just pick the three loot pieces and leave? Well, the door can be re-closed, so for Supreme, it is necessary to do so, and the only way is to trigger the trap. I should also mention that behind the spike wall is another, hidden loot piece which is possible to take once the trap is triggered and evaded.

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To get deeper into the crypt, had to jump onto the platform near the bridge with the Adviser and mantle it from there while he was looking another way. Going past the double brass door, entered the room with a bunch of spike walls and two red beams. Touching either beam activates the traps, and so does the barely visible pressure plate. Jumping over it, entered a semi-circular room leading to the lower level, where I could pick up a few more loot pieces and a lever. Taking the latter spawned in a zombie, which is not a bust, but it can be avoided, which is why I took the lever in the temple instead. I could also deactivate the red beams, but that's forbidden for Supreme, so I just went back to the brass doors.

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Using the lever and opening the doors, I was greeted with another set of doors. Frobbing the ring on the opposite wall caused the floor to open up, but it could be frobbed from afar by leaning forward. Additionally, standing close to the right allowed to avoid the spikes below. Now, considering the circumstances, this looks like a trap, but to me, it looks more like a simple door, and I am not sure what to make of it. Flipped the ring back; the floor door will also close eventually. In the next room, there is a similar setup. Using a lever spawns in a zombie and opens four doors: two on the floor near the lever, one leading outside the room, and one leading into the room with Mystic's Heart. To avoid alerts from the newly spawned zombie, stayed close to the lever and then jumped into the shaded area once he was behind hard cover. The way out led into the flooded cave. Using the platform once again, went back and used the newly opened brass door on the top level. Easily avoiding the pressure plates, took Mystic's Heart. Two objectives down!

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Now, I had to re-close all of the doors I opened. Before closing the room with the lever near the trap doors, had to block the way out with the scroll I had from the start; otherwise, there was not enough time to get out. Then, waited for the zombie to get inside the room and flipped the lever, picking up the scroll and closing the room behind me. Next, returned to the first brass door and flipped the ring and the lever back. Of course, I could not take the levers out and return them, so I'm good here. Next, swam back through the flooded cave and tunnel, got into the collapsed corridor, end exited the crypt through the temple.

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marbleman on 21/7/2019 at 19:28

The Keep

Having deactivated all collector towers in the garden, decided to loot the lower level of the keep. Not much to report here. Careful timing allowed me to never even be in the line of sight of any guard. Of note here is the silver door that leads into the haunted library and eventually the prison. For Supreme, it was preferable to enter it from here. Inside, there is a bunch of loot and two secret areas openable with book switches. Neither can be re-closed, and one of them holds a very hard-to-take torc since Garrett really wants to take the key instead. :D

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On the second floor, broke into the captain's room and picked up his diary. To get the blue gem in the kitchen without being spotted by the drunk, used a rope arrow to reach it from above. On the third floor, picked up more loot and found the door leading into the mage's laboratory. This is the official way in, which involves solving a puzzle with statue heads. However, going this way is impossible for Supreme, and there is a much better option.

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Down the corridor, there is another silver door. Inside is a library with a secret book switch that opens a passage to the laboratory. From here, it is very easy to get the Mystic's Soul without any alerts. The book panel can also be re-closed with a lever, which is nice. Additionally, this area holds a bunch of loot, with only one piece being impossible to take for Supreme: a floating ring, which is being bombarded by magic missiles. If I take it, the missiles will go past it and make noise, alerting the AIs in the area. I could push a button to deactivate the missile emitter, but that seems like deactivating a security measure, which is disallowed for Supreme. All I had to do now is return the orange and silver keys, which was easy enough, and leave the keep.

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Notes
- It's been decided that floor doors in the crypt area are not traps. Since opening those is the only thing that can be considered a Supreme bust, I think I can claim the Supreme success here.
- The two bookcase secrets in the haunted library cannot be re-closed. Not a bust.
- Skipped a blue chest worth 150 in the house near the garden for Supreme. Taking it causes two zombies to wake up and start patrolling.
- Skipped 575 worth of loot in the trap room in the flooded cave for Supreme. Any interaction with it is a Supreme bust.
- Skipped a ring worth 100 near the observatory for Supreme. Taking it requires either activating or deactivating a trap.

klatremus on 21/7/2019 at 20:17

Reading the section on the trap room, I would agree you have to close the door for Supreme, and therefore you are forced to trigger the trap, albeit intentionally, to reclose the door. This is a bust, but a rather uncommon scenario.
Question: I didn't read the whole report as I haven't played this one but am planning to, so why did you put a question mark after Supreme success? Did all the missed loot get you below the loot goal?

marbleman on 21/7/2019 at 20:22

The trap room is definitely off limits for Supreme, so I just skipped it. It's what comes next I'm not sure of. Read the paragraph starting with "Using the lever and opening the doors, I was greeted with another set of doors."

klatremus on 21/7/2019 at 20:42

Yeah that one is a bit more tricky. I think you could leave it as is, with a possible (or even probable) success. It's really a question of what constitutes a "trap". If it is something that simply opens up that is required to open in order to finish the game, then I'd say no. Sure if you happen to stand in the wrong spot when it opens then you might take damage or die, but such situations occur in many places. You could say that opening a door with a guard standing right behind it meant to catch you also is a trap then. Nothing is being shot out at you and you're not triggering anything by crossing an invisible line. You are deliberately frobbing a lever in order to proceed. I'd say you're good here.