Spitter on 21/7/2003 at 12:59
Skills and combat. I was thinking along these lines. If you can execute different sort of "moves" in combat (ie. more than the five or so swings in Arx now), perhaps a skill devoted to combat should not really increase the damage the moves inflict, but instead activate more freaky and deadly blows for player to use? Thus a novice swordsman could only do basic swings here and there, whereas an adept warrior could slash more than one opponent at a time, make false moves to fool his enemies, et cetera.
Maybe.
lancaster6 on 22/7/2003 at 22:12
i used to play a game called "die by the sword". however u moved the mouse was how the sword moved. almost comlete range of motion except for 1 flaw. in order to hit any1, it seemed i had to kneel.if it would have had a button to re-center the sword position after the attack, might have been helpful. the alignment seemd off to me, but the concept was gr8. if they could use that , but narrow , or be able to adjust the range of motion to each player's personal style, that might be something to consider. of course, not being a programmer, i dont know the complexities, but they were close with that game. some refinement might be pretty cool.
just another opinion ,
but its mine so it doesnt smell so bad to me hehe
daveodeth on 24/7/2003 at 11:06
Quote:
Originally posted by James Sterrett A few quick thoughts on combat systems...
Whether or not we like it, the "hold to swing" system does have some grounding in reality. [My basis for the following: I was a fencer for 6 years, spent a summer on grounds crew mostly using a machete, and have had sporadic training with other bladed weapons.]
1) It makes you go back and forth. That's reality, folks. Fights with bladed weapons are grounded in distance. Back off, prep to attack, duck into range to attack and back out before the enemy can reply.... it's real. I spent a tremendous amount of time as a fencer both learning to play with, and playing with, the distance to my opponent.
2) The hold down the mouse to swing... a heavy weapon take a lot of time and muscle to wield. Even a machete, which is a fairly light sword, takes a noticeable amount of time to ready, even when you're trying to work fast and know what you're doing. A heavy sword makes matters worse. A two-handed great-sword is six feet of steel and four to six inches across. Its momentum is amazing; it takes a lot of effort to make it move, and a commensurate effort to stop it (thus it delivers a lot of energy to the target, making it a deadly weapon). In other words, holding down the mouse to prep your next swing isn't unrealistic.
None of this means you have to *like* holding down the mouse button. That's a different issue. :) But it does produce some realistic effects.
If you really want a realistic treatment of the sword, you have to look at Die By The Sword - though it skirts the ragged edge of Trespasser's sin, in making you learn a new interface to control "your" body. But is it fun, which is surely the point.
James Sterrett on 24/7/2003 at 13:42
Fun *is* the point, yes - though fun is also a slippery term. Lancaster6 quite liked Die By The Sword, while I did not. There are people out there would would rather dig their eyeballs out with hot pokers than play Thief or System Shock or Arx.
Thus, in asking the question, you need to be clearer on what it is that's fun for you....
Erik Boielle on 20/10/2003 at 12:36
Hello All.
If you take a look at, some of the stance thingies the suggest for weilding longswords in two hands involve holding them over your head.
See the Art of Longsword Combat, book 1 at
(
http://www.aemma.org/training_top.htm)
But apparently, a properly balanced and well made sword isn't as heavy as you might think.
Then you get proper two handed swords that are just massive and are used differently.
------------
I think you could do something for swordfighting with something of an energy meter - You, you adopt a stance through use of your mouse wheel, and then your energy bar each attack drains some energy until you've made a few blows at which point you have to go on the defensive while it recharges.
-----------
I think its important to try to avoid situations where you can make an anoyingly crap character through bad decision.
Slike I wanted to play a gunslinger in Arcanum, but after a while I gave up and went with a half ogre melee specialist and kicked everything to death with very little effort.
Vary complex lists of stats and whatnot leave me worrying about where to invest my points.
Raf on 21/10/2003 at 20:52
Wao, thanks for that link, Spitter, it's great !
Spitter on 25/10/2003 at 11:07
You must be confusing me with Erik Boielle. :cheeky:
Raf on 25/10/2003 at 12:37
oh yes, sorry Erik
jbd on 26/10/2003 at 04:35
I am happy about supposed stealth improvement. One of the oddest bits about Arx 1 was combining a bow with stealth. If you hit them while in concealment they wouldn't know where you were, and stagger around like they were drunk, and you could shoot repeatedly -- until you missed. Then they knew exactly where you were and made a beeline for you. It made so little sense.
For preventing the usual whack-back up-move forward-whack cycle in melee fighting, it might help to give the AI more flexibility in what they can do. That is, let them back up, and do jumping attacks, and in essence be much smarter than just having them run up and try to hit you.
Tinker on 1/1/2004 at 11:36
The wind ups on the melee weapons did seem too long, but the other all jousting effect seemed okay. It was basically inituative and not over complex. Doing melee well is tough in first person simply because it's 'in your face' and difficult to understand what is happening, especially with short weapons with point blank reach.
Switching weapons was cumbersome. I'd like to have 2 or 3 inventory slots to prime different weapons as main-arm, side-arm, etc, with respective keys to draw them.
